Animal trainers

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Peter thanks for that post, definitely informative.  Ive tried to study these cats anatomy for reference for art.  So Ive been in touch with anyone that is up close to both cats as to get the best info on their differences.  Interesting fight too that you posted.  From what Ive found, its very similar to what your saying, an actual veterinarian that has seen both cats up close, and Ive been to the sanctuary a number of times, he has remarked, the tigers are usually longer, and yes heavier.  But, and you maybe you'll agree, that is where most of that extra weight is going.  Many lions can be so short in length, their like half the size of a long Amur.  But for their size, this expert noted the lions had the stouter body, and thicker mass between the shoulders.  


Very short lion in length, named Tsavo, weight was 500lbs.  It looked strong in body though, very large paws I noticed, seemed to have long paws. 

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I also have seen a large tiger fight a female, and yes their movements are very fast.  One of the main differences out of the top sanctuaries I noticed between dozens and dozens of lions and tigers, was the tigers forearms seem to almost always be thicker than the lions.  I very large Timbavati white lion almost full grown right now that I just saw, is so tall that its forearms are close to the biggest Siberians, but still seemingly more narrow.  But I have to say, the lions body does seem although shorter, is stronger stouter, more muscular in the stomach and back area, as well as even the neck and shoulders.  Many Siberians I saw in the summer, with thinner coats, were not really any thicker than the other tigers. Yet in the winter, these same mixed Siberian tigers appeared a lot thicker.  But I will say, the Amur's often had huge heads, and bigger paws than any lions Ive seen.  Fatter paws, perhaps better for trudging through the snow. 

As for a fight, in this very sanctuary I visited, a lion that had real traces of Barbary decent was very aggressive at feeding time, it lived with another male tiger, the intern keeper there told me, the lion would almost always win the scuffles, and they had to be extremely careful where to throw the food, as in hopes not to start a fight.  The intern mentioned, the lion would take the tigers food, and usually got what it wanted. It was dominant, in person seeing this same lion moved to another cage with 2 lioness's, I have film clips of the lion showing remarkable speed charging after the lioness's while eating.  

Here is that lion who beat the male tiger, Tanner, who is mixed Barbary decent, he was professionally tested.  What is particularly interesting about him, is the reddish hue in his mane and the darker body fur.

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The fur although darker, is still not that thick in the winter, much thinner than the Amur tigers.  Still though, notice how stout and thick Tanner's back is when seen sitting from behind. 
The body fur is so thin, that you can actually see the skin wrinkling beneath it, similar to a wrinkle dog. 

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While Ive been to many sanctuaries, not zoos, as sanctuaries have loads of lions and tigers.  To learn more, I decided to go to the largest Sanctuary in the U.S., Joe Exotics.  There I saw the same thing, many healthy tigers, tons of them, around 50 or so.  Not many lions though available for viewing, as I think they hide the ones that show aggression in the back, which is off limits to the public.  At any rate, I talked to Joe in person.  I first asked him about the differences in anatomy between tigers and lions, I mentioned the tigers seem kind of narrow and long in the body.  He remarked bluntly, " Yeah their skinny."  I said, do you think the lion is thicker or more muscular in the body, he replied, " The lions muscular structure is twice as strong as the tiger."  I then mentioned, but the forearms seem thicker on the tigers, he then said, " depends on the breed."  Then I mentioned, so in a fight, which do you think would win.  He was starting to walk away, obviously very busy and going a gazillion miles a minute, he turned to the side, coyly, and said, " The lion would win,"...then now walking away, he turned again and said looking right at me, " the lion always wins," then he winked and slipped away, as if he had been asked this many times and some how over all his years of work, had a definitive answer, that he new, something some people have trouble relating or at least are unlikely to want to say, as fights in captivity are not to be even spoken of because of the severe animal rights inflicted by radical places like Peta.  

Here is a thick short lion at Joe Exotics.  Very short body, similar to a square in over all shape. 

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The lioness's Ive seen in all these sanctuaries while some are not that big, many are actually similar to the males, with necks and bodies that are much stronger than any of the tigress's Ive seen.
I interestingly have not seen one tigress with a build like this lioness below.  Many times as well, the male lions have this build, but the mane cuts off some of the largest thickest parts of the anatomy.  

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At any rate, any info you guys have on any more fights, feel free to mention.  From the research Ive seen and compiled together on different sites, it seems harder than people think for a full grown tiger to kill a full grown healthy male lion.  Most of the accounts where people thought the tiger had killed a mature healthy male lion, is actually not the case, several were un fair fights, and some the conditions were as such that the age of the lion was young, or it was sick, old or with blunted teeth.  Any info you guys have on accounts of tigers killing adult healthy male lions, feel free to post.  Or maybe open up another thread. 




Darwin states that the mane dose work, and even sites naturalist saying a young lion will not fight an older full maned lion, he states the fights are vicious.  But with this new information, we now can assess, this lion Darwin is citing is most likely the same old lion from the Edmond's account.  Which again, is not a fair fight, it had bad teeth, and was very old. Yet its mane protection worked.  Reply