There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(04-24-2018, 04:43 AM)Mungu Wrote: Basically, that there is human intervention, always and in each every case. Mr T was darted and Mapogo heritage was also extinguished at will and specifically as it happened with sub-adult male Mapogos, targeted and hunted down after being presumed guilty of cattle attacks. But, in any case, everything that happens is, let`s say, "guided" by park politics (that includes local pressure); nothing here is, strictly, of "natural becoming".
Nah, I disagree completely.
Fanatics started that BS just because they don't have anything useful to do and now people has been mislead, and repeat it.
In comparison to other places where there's actual human intervention on the animals like, say, in the desert or in the mara, not even there it's done to "extinguish a certain coalition's heritage", it's just what people do to survive( as it often happens, in conflicts with cattle).
Sacando eso, estamos en algún grupo juntos en Facebook?
...I consider that taking down 5 males at once, being from whatever coalition, to be not an event of fortune. It happens that, these 5 were Mapogo lineage.. that is a fact...
..no que yo sepa..salutti
As someone who stumbled across the documentary about the Mapogo lions and having it lead me down a rabbit hole of wanting to find out more about the lions, this thread has been quite interesting so I thought about sharing some of my analysis based on some basic reasoning despite being many years after the last comment.
For instance this source, <<https://pemburytours.com/mapogo-lions/>>, the way in which the content conveyed by the article to me sheds some light to how people tend to perceive the lions.
In regards to the theory that there was direct human interference that lead to the downfall of Mapogo lions, you can make quite a few logical reasonings.
1. Why might the locals, rangers, and whomever else involved might dislike the Mapogo Lions despite their fame?
First is that it is natural to grow attachment to pre-existing lions that resided in the area in which the Mapogo Lions conquered, so if a group of lions suddenly came and destoryed a large lion population it is logical to dislike them. Although for sure rangers and professionals are supposed to be neutral, everyone is human and is inclined to their own selfish emotions. However, that is beside the point as there are a huge population of relevant people that aren't professionals who need to follow that neutrality. Park officials, local residents, and everyone else are entitled to their own biases and can make influencial decisions that negatively or positively impact the group. Moreover, the Mapogo lions took over in a much larger scale with more violence, cannibalism and destruction making them easy target to be hated. Although titles such as thugs are considered common descriptive words for animals like kings, lovers, etc., but what they infer is quite obvious. They are not conquerers or things with more neutral tones, but thugs with evil descriptions. What they did of course is evil in our eyes especially with the amount of cannibalism and killing of large quantity of male, female, and young lions, but nevertheless it creates more logical basis for people to hate them or incline to harm them. Also just purely on an impression perspective, if somebody is called something negative rather than neutral or positive they are more likely to be viewed in a negative light. Also on a side note “From the time I first saw them until I left the Sabi Sands, the Mapogos killed between 90 and 110 other lions in the park. I also had to shoot approximately 15 lions that were so badly mauled by the Mapogos that their spines were severed and had to be put out of their misery.” If they really liked the Mapogos like the ranger from the documentary describes, they could have given them a less painful death because clearly they don't view putting animal out of misery as disturbing the natural order only nursing it counts. This is quite minor though, just thought it was interesting to point out.
2. Why despite their fame and potentially bringing in tourists, relevant parties might want to cause harm to them?
Like the source above suggested not only the usual casualties of male lion takeover occur, the female population who are usually more unaffected were affected.
[*]Castleton Pride: originally 22 down to 6.
[*]Tsalala Pride: originally 10 down to 5.
[*]Ximunvanyane Pride: originally 10 down to 0.
[*]Elephant Plains reported that almost 40% of the lion population had been killed by the Mapogo Coalition. This means they killed around 40 – 50 lions
To rangers and the park, male lions come and go due to the natural order, but death of females and the destruction of prides aren't so common. The violent tendencies of the Mopogo gang like Mr.T killing and eating lioness or mating with dead lioness that he killed her are not something probably the rangers would even feel acustomed to. The Mapogo gang is trurly and extrodinary group of lions, but it is undeniable that they brought a lot of havok to the prides that is pivitol to the lion population and the park. As mentioned earlier males come and go, but prides pass down the bloodline and play a more important role in the lion population survival, so having the Mopogo gang negatively affecting them will definitively irritate local population, professionals, and authorities. In addition, for the park even though it is nice to have some infamous group of 6 lions, massive deduction of lion population never look good on paper. Fertile lioness dying due to violent Mapogo lions are never positive to the park as it decreases future lion output and harm the future outlook of the park severely. Regardless of how famous the Mapogo lions are, they will eventually die of old age. However, if the prides get reduced in numbers and the Mapogo lions keep killing their own cubs due to internal fighting and violent tendencies, there will be less fertile partners available for the eventual takeover of new lions and reduce to output of new lions. To park officials Mapogo lions aren't natural, but rather an anomoly that disturb the status quo and that can be viewed negatively. Just from a people's persepective, we hate change, and when the change is a group of violent, more cannibalistic, and unusual lions massacring your park's lion population, you are more likely to detest them. Therefore, it is entirely likely that there were involvements from others that expedited the downfall of Mapogo gang for the sake of the lion ecosystem. Eventhough we would like to believe in those environments nature is allowed to run freely, but in essence it is through and through a business and an ecosystem. If money stops flowing, who is going to pay rangers, the locals, and the resources? To the outside the Mapogo lions are like a great documentary, to the park it can be viewed as a plague that they want to get rid of it quickly.
Conlusion:
Kind of got tired of writing, had a third point but am just too lazy to finish it. Also famous lions are desirable for trophies, hence why dreadlock is poached and why their subadults might be prime targets for extra bragging rights. However, when you look at it from the other side, pretty sure if like they really wanted Mapogo Lions to be gone they could have acted way sooner rather than letting them live till old age. It is not definitively known whether there was more tampering than what meets the eye, but as outlined above there are very logical reasons for the park to help expedite the process so the ecosystem goes back to "normal." As one say, everyone has a limit, it just depends on how much so I don't have this unrealistic expectation that the professionals always stick to their code especially the underlying logic behind their work place is that it is a business. A business that advertise on keeping it nature as a business model, a wild zoo, but a zoo regardless.
