About methods, measurements, errors, baits and the art of debating

[peter]

The problem regarding your proposal is a lack of reliable data. Not many big cats have been measured in both ways. Those that were, often were not weighed.  

As to weights and adjustments. When there is a precise weight, one has to know if the tiger was empty, gorged or in-between? I know in what way weights are adjusted, but I do not always agree. I saw a photograph of one of the male tigers captured in Nagarahole. Not saying he was empty, but I didn't see a stomach. In spite of that, he was severely adjusted. All males were. And all to the same degree. Why that was? I don't know. 

Measurements. Let's take the three regions discussed in my previous post. The first question is if they used the same method? Ullas Karanth wrote tigers in India, Nepal and Russia more or less compare in size. He also wrote a standard method is used, so I take that as a yes. But the descriptions of the method used offered by Sunquist and Miquelle differed and not a bit. Anyhow. Were the tigers measured 'over curves'? The answer is more or less, but then not quite. I take that as a yes. I mean a yes in Russia and a no in Nepal. Next question. A century ago all agreed a measurement taken 'over curves' is unreliable. That is why zoologists and biologists measure big cats 'between pegs'. Why decide to use an unreliable method in Russia (and India?) in spite of that? No answers yet.   

Curve measurements. Some think curve measurements offer more info on the real size of the cat. I disagree. I measured captive male lions. They were shorter than the captive male Amurs I also measured. When using the results of the measurements to get to conclusions, one could say the male lions were dwarfed by the tigers. Anything but, I would say. Male lions, although shorter and not as muscular in the limbs as tigers, often are massive animals made of concrete. Add the big skull, the mane and the character of an average male and you have an animal not to be trifled with. Any indications in the methods used to measure the cats? No. Any difference between both methods? No.  

As to the proposal on sharing the post. Everything posted on the internet is in the public domain = free for all to see. Do what you want, but wait for the edits. I'm not happy with the post at the moment. Not enough focus. I need one more day. And ask Sanjay as well, as he's co-owner. When you post it at Carnivora, tell them it wasn't done to restart the debate with WaveRiders. Our debate has been concluded. But others might be interested to continue. Reply