Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences

[Dark Jaguar]

(10-14-2020, 06:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(10-14-2020, 05:07 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @Shadow

Exept the info from my post isn't only based on ''what I think'' or neither ''IF'' speculation as they also include results of long term researches made in 2 different biomes of Brazil stated by the people who work in the field themselves for many years in both Iguaçú and Refúgio Ecológico Caiman and not to mention the other areas (as stated by Joares May on the Puma case ) as these people travel the whole country seeking for captures and researches, so nothing better than they themselves confirm the fact that Pumas will seek smaller preys and will avoid direct encounter with Jaguars. The mutual respect could probably happen in Caatinga.

Indeed there's very little information on violent direct interspecific confrontation of these animals and the reason why we can already have an accurate idea just by the fact Pumas won't show up in areas jaguars are seen the most exept during certain times of the day because there are a larger, bulky, big headed cat roaming around in the same enviornment.

Pumas are powerful cats but most of places they coexist with jaguars, they are smaller than the jaguar.

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In addition to that I am gonna drop a part of the PHD study by Leandro Silveira  ( COMPARATIVE ECOLOGY AND CONSERVATION OF JAGUAR (PANTHERA ONCA) AND PUMA (PUMA CONCOLOR), IN THE CERRADO AND PANTANAL ) about the difference in habitat of the 2 species in PNE ( Parque Nacional das Emas ) area of Cerrado.

PAGE 72 and 73. http://www.gesto.to.gov.br/site_media/up...ntanal.pdf

Here's the PNE map the red triangles are the Cerrado Jaguars tracks monitored and the black dots are the Cerrado Pumas tracks monitored between January 2001 and December 2002.

Figure 24

*This image is copyright of its original author

''The differences in habitat use between jaguars and pumas in the Emas National Park region (PNE) analyzed through radio-telemetry, reflect the distribution of individuals monitored (Figure 21 and 24). Cerrado Jaguars were rarely observed outside the boundaries of the PNE, while almost all individuals of Cerrado Pumas monitored at some point left the reserve, with only one exception (Figure 24). Thus, anthropized habitats were part of the landscape used by Pumas, much more than for jaguars.

The results from the use of habitats by Cerrado Jaguars in the PNE region, between January 2001 and December 2002, indicated that the niche of the species comprises basically two segments of areas: the eastern region of the Park formed by the valley that encompasses the springs on the right bank of the Jacuba River, leaving the Park, to the proximities of the mouth with the Rio Formoso and the headwaters of the Cabeceira Alta and Rio Formoso streams (Figures 24 and 25). The Pumas did not restrict their distribution and habitat use in the same way (Figure 24).

Despite the apparent uniformity of the habitat of Campo Sujo in the eastern region of the PNE, where the Cerrado jaguars were concentrated, it was observed that the individuals monitored used the flat areas of slate more in the nocturnal than in the diurnal period (Figure 26).''

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I am pretty sure if the Cerrado Jaguars weren't occuping the PNE area on large scale within that period of time there would be way more Cerrado Pumas venturing into the PNE area.

I´ve tried to give quite clear hints about certain things which create often closely to ridiculous problems in these threads.

One is, that people corner themselves too strongly to "tiger corner", "lion corner", "jaguar corner", "leopard corner" or whatever. Then when there is something even slightly suggested, that the animal which is under observation isn´t perfect, starts debate in which misunderstandings happen even on purpose or because people are blinded by preferring too much one species.

Like now, one minor thing, can a leopard give a good fight to a jaguar sometimes, cause tons of "evidence" that no, not ever or not in any way, not possible... you get what I mean? Same time we have video evidence showing, that occasionally even tigers and lions back off from leopards. And some expert opinions, that fights could have heavy price for both species.

So, no-one here can convince for instance me, that a leopard couldn´t time to time give a very good fight to a jaguar too if such incident for some reason would happen. And same with pumas, they overlap in size and even when not, size difference isn´t always extreme.

So in species level, of course jaguars are bigger and more dominant, same naturally with tigers and lions, overall leopard is no match. But. But in some occasions smaller cat can give to a bigger one more than bigger one is willing to take and it can even back off. Why not even die later to some injuries caused by fight, I don´t see any reason why not in some occasions even though not usually. And some experts seem to think the same as I and many others.

So when we disagree about this minor and quite meaningless issue overall, it doesn´t mean, that disagreement would be about everything. 

Then another point of view, it´s well known that sometimes big cats as all predators fail in hunting and get injuries and even succumb later to those wounds/internal injuries. So how come a big leopard or puma couldn´t cause injuries, when it´s well known, that many smaller animals time to time cause painful injuries to predators or even death.

But main point would be still, that people in these threads would learn to look closer what is said and think a moment why some other can think differently. It´s useless to debate about this issue really, I and some others see some things differently than for instance you and some things in same way. You can´t "win" this discussion, all relevant things are on the table and I have nothing to change to my previous postings, you didn´t provide any reason for me to do so, when I look at things based on my observations and things I´ve read and seen on videos etc.

Hopefully now it starts to be clear to all.

First of all, the main point of my posts wasn't about VS debate amongst leopard,puma, jaguar or if leopards and pumas will give a jaguar a good fight or not, it was about the interaction, size differences in same areas or in different biomes, territory preferences and the very few interactions between the 2 species reported so far.

Secondly, sure its not a competition for who wins a debate or who will lose, I don't wanna win anything afterall we all got different thoughts and opinions otherwise this discussion wouldn't even existed.

And lastly the main point wasn't to make you believe in me or to change your previous postings but to show the wild coexistence of these 2 cats in some biomes of Brazil that have been published and mentioned that in natural wild situations have been proven that the smaller cat will avoid the larger cat more often than not regardless if it can put up a good fight or not. Reply