Comparing big cats - differences/changes with time

[Balam]

(08-01-2020, 11:14 PM)Balam Wrote:

(08-01-2020, 10:21 PM)Bitishannah Wrote:

(07-27-2020, 01:03 AM)Balam Wrote:

(07-27-2020, 12:46 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Still no evidence, just your opinion. If you have some measurements, then let us see it. Plus, Sundarbans is not the only mangrove system that tigers inhabited in the past. They were found in Bhitarkanika where they shared habitat with saltwater crocodiles (you can claim orinoco crocodiles are larger than the ones found in Bhitarkanika but that would be a waste of time). In fact all along the Bay of Bengal they interacted with saltwater crocodile which are much bigger than orinoco crocodile.

You're right that I lack the data regarding Sudarnbans salties because studies on them haven't been performed to determine average body mass or length, but based on my discussions with crocodile enthusiasts I have had in the past I was left under the impression that Sundarbans salties have been thought to be smaller than other populations. Now, if you disagree with that then perhaps we could see your data on them and the burden of proof would fall on you.

I'm also exclusively referring to the claim regarding the Sundarbans because that's the biome you mentioned, and even if those crocodiles aren't necessarily smaller (which I highly doubt), it doesn't take away from the fact that the claim that floodplains jaguars don't have to deal with comparable aquatic competitors to Sundarbans tigers is false.

I think it would be better if you think you can bring saltwater crocodiles size data from Sunderbans since you said they were small. 

Also It would be better to see interspecific interactions between floodplain jaguars and Anaconda, Orinoco crocs and black caimans.

I didn't say they were small, I said *smaller* than salties from other regions, don't twist my words. Not only that but the initial claim was that jaguar didn't interact with comparable crocodilians to which I brought up Orinoco crocodiles and black caiman (I forgot to add American crocodiles to that mix as well), it was never to compare how both felids interacted in general with the crocodiles, just to show that jaguars too face similar threats in the water in certain regions. Interactions between jaguars and black caiman as well as anacondas have been posted in this forum before.

Here is a quote from Mainak Ray, who is a photographer at the Sundarbans, involving saltwater crocodiles there:

"A saltwater crocodile carrying its deer kill on its back waiting for another round of death roll to tear the prey. A common sight in Africa during the migration but in the canals of the mangroves in Sunderbans the deer is not so desperate to cross the river and even when they do so they cross very cautiously after a long check for any danger whatsoever. And the size of the swamp crocs here are much smaller. This is rare sight in the mangroves where the crocodile is hardly as big as the male deer
"

Source: https://hive.natureinfocus.in/photo_sharing/death-roll/

He's comparing the crocodiles to the Nile ones who feed on ungulates, as well as the ungulates themselves, clearly stating these crocodiles are smaller than the Niles he's seen.

Furthermore, while the data on Sundarbans salties sizes is scarce, we do have one measurement of a crocodile who was responsible for killing a tigress, and it measured close to 14 ft or 4.2 meters in length:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Source: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b9d0/4bb0907914b0bfe39595e9a5a45beab13d70.pdf

Based on the information above my initial statement regarding the size comparisons between Orinoco and Sundarbans saltwater crocodiles has validity to it. I believe there is some overlap in size, but the big Orinoco crocodiles are definitely the largest out of the two, salties from other areas such as Australasia would come up on top tho. And this also clarifies that jaguars also deal with large crocodilians in water, contrary to what was stated before. Reply