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06-04-2020, 02:29 PM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 02:30 PM by Shadow )
(06-04-2020, 12:28 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 02:51 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
First , wildtransilvania is not a reliable source about bears from Romania, but a website of antihunting eco-marxists.
2. Any 350 kilo bear is huge for the european subspecies, especially in spring time...
3.There are of course even +480 kilo bears in Romania in late autumn time
4.Romania has the largest bear population in Europe with almoust 7.000 individuals, of course that such a big population will spawn outstanding individuals
5.Any serous hunter and biologist can testify about the relative largeness of Carpathian brown bears, there are facts, like sknis and skulls to prove that, no need to listend drunk hunters for that.
6. The vast majority of bears skins and skulls from Romania are hosted in The Cinegetical Museum of Romania, located in Posada, Prahova County. Here is the enormous skin measuroing 2,77 meters even after it was dried, of the largest bear taken in Romania. The same skin measured 191 centimeters in the widest point. Also, there are dozend and dozens of other skins and skulls. Any professional researcher is allowed to measure all these hunting records.
7. The ultimate proof about largeness of Carpathian bears in Europe is given the fact that in all the Eurasia, they are immediate after Kamtschatkan brown bears (a different subspecies) when it cames about sheer size. And the differences are infimes. How infimes? Lets take a look at the facts.
In 10 April 2015, on the hunting terrain near the village of Vârșag, Harghita County, the hungarian hunter Kosztolany Laszlo leggaly hunted the largest bear from Romania ever measured. that bear skull, obtained 70,01 CIC points wich mean that is has the lenght of 44, 10 centimeters and vas 25, 91 centimeters wide. The second largest skull taken in Romania has 69,2 CIC points wich mean a lenght of 41,8 centimeters and was 27,4 centimeters wide. Show me similar measurements for the largest bears form Scandinavia, can you?
The largest bear hunted in Kamtschatka was shooted by the hunter V.N. Kordienko in 1992, The skull was omologated in 1999 in the Moskow Hunting Expo, that particular skul obtained 70, 32 CIC points, so it almouts similar to the 70,01 CIC skull of the Carpathian bear hunted in 2015.
For comparison and also as a ultimate proof, according to Boon and Crookett the largest Kodiak Bear skull has 78,1 points.
8. In the picture is the second largest bear hunted in Romania, the monster from Bistrița Năsăud County, in the hunting terrain of Colibița, and it was shot by the french hunter Xavier de Montbell, in picture near the bear. The skull has 69,2 CIC points, with 41,8 centimeters in lenght, and 27,4 cetimeters wide. The skin obtained 560,2 CIC points,
I saw in many other sites too mentioned, that up to 350 kg is normal for Carpathian brown bears. And I don´t see any reason really to it, what would make them extraordinary big in average even though there can be some exceptional individual among others. In very good conditions they can be then really heavy, much heavier than they are in average year.
But I see that you have partially good points and partially you make assumptions. Like in it, that there would be heavier bears than that 480 kg, for inland brown bear gaining that much weight is so much, that I don´t think that so big bears would be seen all the time anywhere in Eurasia, when we exclude Kamchatkan bears who have access to salmon rivers.
Anyway interesting information, thanks, I have to look closer too what kind of things is mentioned about bears in that area by different sources, not alone by hunters. When hunters are main source I always like to find some other information too to see if such information backs up what hunters tell or are there big differences. What comes to Finland it´s so, that information of biggest known bears come from researchers, not from hunters. Still nowadays hunters are more reliable source, than "in good old days". They can´t exaggerate anymore as much as in past and with this I don´t mean only bears but overall situation when looking back something like 50+ years ago.
Anyway very interesting to see if something more can be found and maybe some explanations if there is something different in Carpathian area or just a few very lucky hunters. Thanks for this extra information!
Russian Brown Bears
