There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
06-08-2015, 11:16 PM( This post was last modified: 10-02-2015, 01:18 AM by peter )
brotherbear\ dateline='\'1433770920' Wrote: I would be interested to see a comparison of an Ussuri brown bear and an Amur tiger to scale in such a manner at some point in time.
Wild male Amur tigers average 195 cm. in head and a body in a straight line and, according to Guate, about 420 pounds (190,5 kg.). Miquelle thought 430 pounds (195,0 kg.) would be about right for an average male. According to Guate, who used the WCS-table, wild male Amur tigers are about as tall as an average wild male Indian tiger, but captive male Amurs in European zoos (Moscow included), about half a century ago, averaged 102-103 cm. (V. Mazak, 1980, pp. 180).
Wild male Ussuri brown bears, according to Kucerenko, average 196 cm. in total length and 582 pounds (264,0 kg.) in weight. As brown bears usually are measured 'over contours' and the difference between a straight line and a contour measurement in adult male brown bears in Yellowstone (who also average 196 cm. in length) was about 32 cm., one could assume Ussuri brown bears, if similar to their relatives in Yellowstone, also average about 164 cm. in a straight line.
I'm not sure about the weight either. Kucherenko wrote 10 males ranged between 260-320 kg. This means his average of 264 kg. probably was incorrect. Three adult males very recently weighed were 165, 180 and 235 kg. Of these, two (of 180 and 235 kg.) were from the Russian Far East. Quite a difference. What to do? I don't know.
My guess is the real average is closer to the average found a year ago, but we have to remember the sample was very small.
The picture that emerges is that brown bears, although shorter, are taller, wider and heavier than big cats, both absolutely and relatively. They also have longer and heavier skulls. Visible in the bones as well? Yes. I saw skeletons of a male lion and a male brown bear side by side in the Napoli Natural History Museum (one of the best I saw). Both very similar in many ways, but the bear, although a trifle shorter, was bigger in all respects. Just a bit, but bigger no doubt. Could have been 5% and could have been 10%.
This is the skeleton of Ursus arctos lasiotus. I saw it on Grahh's forum ago:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Big bones need big muscles. This means the percentages mentioned above need to be increased in live animals. My guess is an average male Ussuri brown bear, when about similar in head and body length as a big cat, probaby is 10-20% heavier. If an average male Amur tiger is about 420-430 ponds, an average wild male Ussuri brown bear should be anywhere between 460-520 pounds empty, say 490 or so (year-round average). This although the bear is about 15-20% shorter in head and body (seen from the perspective of the bear). Brown bears, therefore, are more robust animals than big cats, both in absolutes and relatives.
Also remember they are subject to violent weight changes. A male bear of average dimensions, depending on the season, could fluctuate between 400-650 pounds (400 in a bad year directly after hibernation and 650 in a good year just before hibernation). I saw a photograph of a large male brown bear (a 'Schatun') who was 150 kg. (331 pounds) only when they found him. Skin and bones, he was. In good shape, he could have been twice that weight.
Individual variation in both species is pronounced, but more so in brown bears. Some males range between 350-500 pounds all their live, whereas others might reach 800 and over at times. A lot over. In northeast Siberia, they found the remains of a male estimated to have exceeded 1200 pounds. Male Amur tigers range between 350-468 pounds and seem to reach their best shape in winter. The 468-pound male ('Luke' or 'Lyuk') is the heaviest actually weighed in the last decades, but his dimensions were well below average.
The problem with a comparison based on length is how to express robustess.