Coalitions of Kruger National Park

[BA0701]

(08-25-2023, 07:17 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(08-25-2023, 06:20 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Was this male branded? That scar seems awfully symmetrical.

Yes, if im not mistaken these guys where darted and weighted/observed back in the day, from that comes rumors of them being "biggest lions in Kruger".

But i dont think that info was ever released in public, atleast i didnt find any, maybe there is.

Ok, that makes sense, big boy for sure. I wonder why, if it exists, they won't release that kind of data, sure would end a lot of debates on the subject, or simply stop them before they started. Reply

[T I N O]

(08-25-2023, 07:57 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(08-25-2023, 07:17 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(08-25-2023, 06:20 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Was this male branded? That scar seems awfully symmetrical.

Yes, if im not mistaken these guys where darted and weighted/observed back in the day, from that comes rumors of them being "biggest lions in Kruger".

But i dont think that info was ever released in public, atleast i didnt find any, maybe there is.

Ok, that makes sense, big boy for sure. I wonder why, if it exists, they won't release that kind of data, sure would end a lot of debates on the subject, or simply stop them before they started.

The Skybed males were also branded by the letter C
They were branded with the letter C on their back leg, that was because they were inoculated by a vet due to a rabies scare. Reply

[Mapokser]

@Tr1x24 I remember multiple people claiming they weighed 635lbs and 683lbs respectively, saying there was a sheet from the vet who weighed them, with their info from the darting.

Though nobody has ever showed any actual evidence of it. 683lbs, even if it was a full stomach weight, it'd be a record. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(08-25-2023, 11:32 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 I remember multiple people claiming they weighed 635lbs and 683lbs respectively, saying there was a sheet from the vet who weighed them, with their info from the darting.

Though nobody has ever showed any actual evidence of it. 683lbs, even if it was a full stomach weight, it'd be a record.

Thats what, 280- 300kg? Maybe with extreme full belly male can reach that, as they can eat 30-40 kg of meat, this is picture of 1 Leeubron male with full belly back in early 2018 by Big on Wild:

*This image is copyright of its original author

But would they dart him when he is that full? That might bring complications, i think its not recommended to sedative anyone with full belly.

So yea, if they where not full like this, i dont think those numbers are correct. Reply

[T I N O]

Leeubron males are something else. Just like the Black dam male, a true beast of male lion he was Reply

[Mapokser]

@Tr1x24 some lions were weighed with full stomachs in the past so I'm not sure if it would cause any problems. But they normally use baits to dart them. Iirc the biggest lion from Kruger weighed by Smuts in the 80s was 250kg but had a full stomach and was estimated at 225 empty.

683lb is exactly 309kg, coincidentally the number given to a lion also weighed with a full stomach in the 90s, which was witnessed by Rob the Ranger in the Waterberg Biosphere.

I'm not sure if that reserve is big enough to have real competition though, many small reserves have like only 1 pride and coalition so they have an easy life and often grow bigger than the average ( and even become fat ) plus when the reserve owners go looking for new males to introduce to diversify the gene pool, they'd obviously look for big and healthy males.

So this may or may not be the reason why this 90s lion was so huge ( again I don't know anything about that reserve ). However Leeubrons live a fully normal and wild life facing plenty of competition and were born without "eugenics" so to get to such a weight ( if true ) it'd be insane, even with a full stomach ( since let's be honest 309kg with an empty stomach is completely impossible ). Reply

[Lipstick2]

(08-25-2023, 07:53 PM)Timbavati Wrote:

(08-25-2023, 07:33 PM)Mdz123 Wrote: The Biyamitis

They're looking in excellent shape

Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins? Reply

[BigLion39]

(08-26-2023, 06:49 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins?

Aren't they sons of Eastern Bank Males? Reply

[Brahim]

Those weights are usually made up by people on Facebook with no reports actually existing Reply

[Lipstick2]

(08-26-2023, 10:42 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:

(08-26-2023, 06:49 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins?

Aren't they sons of Eastern Bank Males?

Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time? Reply

[Tr1x24]

(08-26-2023, 02:56 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time?

They are sons of EBMs and are very similar to them, aswell to their grandfathers, Toulon males.

Here Silver eyed male and Diamond face Toulon:

*This image is copyright of its original author

They are territorial west of Skukuza on S1, near Kruger Gate, s65 road / Nwaswitshaka waterhole. 

They first ousted last Mpondo Snip Tail from Nwaswitshaka area later in 2021, then later in 2022 they expanded further north on S1, area which was occupied by 3 Renosterkoppies, they are prob the ones who mauled DM Renosterkoppies, which was prob fatal as he was not seen since.

These guys were nomads since around 2 yrs of age, when their fathers lost territory to either Mjejanes, Mpondo or Young Jocks, maybe even mixture of those, as they where picked 1by1.

After ~2 years of long nomadic life, they succeeded, at quite young age, they where around 4 when they ousted Snip Tail. Reply

[Brahim]

Young Nkaya pan male.
Credit: Alberto Scattolin Reply

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[Lipstick2]

(08-26-2023, 03:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(08-26-2023, 02:56 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time?

They are sons of EBMs and are very similar to them, aswell to their grandfathers, Toulon males.

Here Silver eyed male and Diamond face Toulon:

*This image is copyright of its original author

They are territorial west of Skukuza on S1, near Kruger Gate, s65 road / Nwaswitshaka waterhole. 

They first ousted last Mpondo Snip Tail from Nwaswitshaka area later in 2021, then later in 2022 they expanded further north on S1, area which was occupied by 3 Renosterkoppies, they are prob the ones who mauled DM Renosterkoppies, which was prob fatal as he was not seen since.

These guys were nomads since around 2 yrs of age, when their fathers lost territory to either Mjejanes, Mpondo or Young Jocks, maybe even mixture of those, as they where picked 1by1.

After ~2 years of long nomadic life, they succeeded, at quite young age, they where around 4 when they ousted Snip Tail.

Thank you so much for your discussion. 
Indeed, they have face similarities from these pics, probably im just forgot the Toulon males' appearance 'cause didn't see them so long after/since they were ousted by the 5 Mantimahles from the southern SS. But i'm still seeing a major difference between them as if Biyamitis would have slightly longer manes than the Toulons had. 

So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by? Reply

[Tr1x24]

(08-26-2023, 05:09 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by?

West of them along S1 at Nyamundwa Dam are 2 Kambulas and Pretoriuskop male, looks like new territorial males there after Blodie and 3rd Phabeni.

Southwest of them, around Transport Dam , 2 Renosterkoppies males made appearence with a pride.

Southeast are s35 and KT Lubyelubye.

East around Skukuza are Nkhulus currently.

No, 3 Phabeni are further southwest, at Shitlave Dam and Pretoriuskop, and young Jocks are waaay down south. Reply

[Lipstick2]

(08-26-2023, 06:08 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(08-26-2023, 05:09 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by?

West of them along S1 at Nyamundwa Dam are 2 Kambulas and Pretoriuskop male, looks like new territorial males there after Blodie and 3rd Phabeni.

Southwest of them, around Transport Dam , 2 Renosterkoppies males made appearence with a pride.

Southeast are s35 and KT Lubyelubye.

East around Skukuza are Nkhulus currently.

No, 3 Phabeni are further southwest, at Shitlave Dam and Pretoriuskop, and young Jocks are waaay down south.

So, the 3 Phabenis and Fourways Blondie have splitted up? That's interesting. (I couldn't follow to most of the Kruger processes recently.)

And what's up with last 2 Mjejanes? I've heard that last time, they're also near the area from the south probably, or are they also far more down to south like the Young Jocks? I didn't see so many updates on them recently. Reply