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Lions of Timbavati
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 (12-13-2019, 01:23 AM)Potato Wrote: No, it was 3 from the beginning.  *This image is copyright of its original author River Pride males where seen alot in Klaserie in mid to late 2019,this is theirs pictures from mid to september/october 2019 from Xanatseni Private Camp in Klaserie :  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author And people on Facebook claim that they split into a coalition of 3 and 2. After September/october there was no sighting of River Pride males in Klaserie, yet 3 "unknown" males where seen in Timbavati, some claim that they are River Pride males, some say they are not. I think this "unknown" males are River Pride males afterall.. River Pride males where seen in Klaserie to September/october, and after that 3 "new" males where seen in Timbavati, and no sighting of River Pride males since that, neither in Klaserie or Timbavati,i think thats too big of a coincidence.. We dont know for sure but its more likely that those are River Pride males and not "new" males who are the same age, same looks and after they came in this area no sighting of the River Pride males, like they dissapeared from the Earth, 5 young males would get spottet in near by lodges/camps if they left. My opinion. 
Why do you presume that young males seen in Xanatseni were young River males? In case of those males it is again coalition of 3, not 5. From 14 Xanatseni 14 September:
"Just before the early morning game drive was due to head out, Xanatseni guide Bill Drew heard lions calling close to camp. After quickly packing the coffee box, It didn't take long to track down these two males who were busy catching some warm sunrise rays. These are the same lions who took down a giraffe earlier this month, and there is also another male and female who is with them. These blondish big cats have been seen mating with the female." What comes to dissapearing of young RP males then they could indeed just dissapear in Kruger. You never know with nomads. For example just look how long way Avocas made from Timbavati to Sabi Sands and similarly RP males could just moved on. (12-13-2019, 02:58 AM)Potato Wrote: Why do you presume that young males seen in Xanatseni were young River males? In case of those males it is again coalition of 3, not 5. From 14 Xanatseni 14 September: I didnt presume, on all this pictures it was stated from Xanatseni camp that this was River Pride males. For the 3 out of 5 case, theres been a while ago when the all 5 River Pride males where seen together, even in their scraps with the Mbiri Boys there where never all 5 involved, this is their picture of only 3 in February in Ivory Camp:  *This image is copyright of its original author Its speculated that this 3 stayed in this area and other 2 moved further into Klaserie. This 3 are very similar to the "new" males.
"I didnt presume, on all this pictures it was stated from Xanatseni camp that this was River Pride males. "
Where exectly? I went through their facebook page and there was on description whatsoever as to identity of lions on those photos. Anyway even if there would be then it wouldn't mean much. All logdes around including Tanda Tula was refering to this males as River males untill this new Tanda Tula raport which say it was incorect. As it comes to their numbers then since they hang with River pride there was always only 3 males. (12-13-2019, 02:32 PM)Potato Wrote: Where exectly? I went through their facebook page and there was on description whatsoever as to identity of lions on those photos. Anyway even if there would be then it wouldn't mean much. All logdes around including Tanda Tula was refering to this males as River males untill this new Tanda Tula raport which say it was incorect. As it comes to their numbers then since they hang with River pride there was always only 3 males. Photo taken of River Pride male in May 2019, waay before this "new males" where even started to get mentioned, so this picture isnt recent:  *This image is copyright of its original author This male on first photo is clearly this male from the new Vuyatela males, picture taken few weeks ago:  *This image is copyright of its original author Facebook page "Lions of Timbavati" also said that this are the same males:  *This image is copyright of its original author Tanda Tula said that they are not the same, but based on what, because they are only 3?? 5 River Pride males where not seen together as 5 for very long time as said before, and people are saying that they split in 2 gruops in mid 2019. But look at the first and second photo, thats the same male and proof that this 3 males are indeed the River Pride young males.
As I said above "Anyway even if there would be then it wouldn't mean much. All logdes around including Tanda Tula was refering to this males as River males untill this new Tanda Tula raport which say it was incorect. As it comes to their numbers then since they hang with River pride there was always only 3 males." so Xanatseni description that this was River males doesn't convince me at all. Also kind of remainds me of our recent talk about Jacis Sabi House post of Nharu males return which was also fake.
What it comes to that facebook page... it is not any official page of guide or lodge, his opinion isn't worth anythink more than your or mine. Also he claims that Vuelas and young River males are same coalition and that is other think that you claim so I totally do not understand what that facebook post were supposed to prove. Moreover his opinion goes along with mine that Vuelas and River males may be the same althrough for now it is only unconfirmed presumption. "Tanda Tula said that they are not the same, but based on what, because they are only 3?? 5 River Pride males where not seen together as 5 for very long time as said before, and people are saying that they split in 2 gruops in mid 2019" That is for sure not the case. Couple of raports age they were constanly calling those males which were moving with River pride young River males even through they were only 3 males coalition and then in following raport there claim that they chacked their identity and are sure now that those males are not young River males. I presume they checked whiskers. They are profesional guides after all. Also they claim in their report that they new for certain that those are not young River males.
Tanda Tula raport
It was a week that belonged to the lions. The three new males of the River Pride were seen and heard on most days. They continued to mate with the females of the River Pride, and this only bodes well for a whole lot of new cubs coming to the area soon! I did get a little concerned when the Mbiri males started pushing further north than they have for months and we found them close to Tanda Tula Safari Campone rainy afternoon. They actually gave us a great sighting as they went running into an area where they had clearly heard the alarm calls of some impalas, and realised that a leopard had more than likely made a kill.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The two males then went and investigated the large Marula trees in the area of the alarm calls looking for the leopard’s kill, but they didn’t have much joy and settled down. We left them and went to see another leopard close by (the gorgeous Xidulu male on the prowl), but when Civilized relocated the lions, they had eventually found the leopard’s kill! Fortunately for the leopard, he had stashed the baby impala high enough up the tree that the lions didn’t even contemplate trying to get it. Instead, the two males set off roaring their dominance over the southern parts of our concession before heading back south-west, and away from a potential meet-up with the three new males. Any conflict between these coalitions now could well send ripples through the River Pride, which wouldn’t be good for the stability of their presence in the area. However, it appears as though a line has been drawn in the sand and both coalitions of male lions are happy as long as the other party stays on their respective side of this line. A couple of days later the Mbiri males were found with a zebra kill in the south before making one last appearance at the end of the week. My hope is that with the Mbiri males patrolling within our concession, the Mayambula Pride will make a return to a part of their territory that is now livening up with good prey species.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
(12-13-2019, 06:21 PM)Potato Wrote: Xanatseni description that this was River males doesn't convince me at all. Ok, but how do you explain 2 images that i compare, 1 image is of 1 young River Pride male in May 2019, i will post it again:  *This image is copyright of its original author And 1 recent picture of that "new" male:  *This image is copyright of its original author This is the same lions.. Or you will say now that Xanatseni guides are clueless and that isnt River Pride male, but Tanda Tulas guides are experts, and that they did whiskers check, of which we have 0 evidence that they did check it?? If you dont belive Xanatseni guides that this male on the photo (photo was from May 2019 i repeat once again, months ago before any words of this "new" males in this area) then i dont se a reason why you trust Tanda Tula guides that this isnt River Pride males.. I belive that this are the young River Pride males, theres more evidence that they are, then not.. 
Two of the young Western pride males relaxing with a good view of things in northern Timbavati. There is another brother, and they are often seen individually.
- Posted by Samuel Doughty Photography, Dec 13, 2019.  *This image is copyright of its original author
The formidable Giraffe male, the King of the Blackdam pride at Royal Malewane.
- Posted by Rudi Hulshof, Dec 11, 2019.  *This image is copyright of its original author
The impressive Blackdam male with the Giraffe pride at Kambaku Lodge.
- Posted by Michele Causer, Dec 7, 2019.  *This image is copyright of its original author
Update on the Western Pride - we caught up with the pride after they'd been chased off a kill by two nomadic males in the morning. Two of the Western Pride females remained with the males, and one proceeded to mate with one of the males. Meanwhile the rest of the pride left the area at pace, seeking safety for their youngsters. A fantastic close encounter with these beautiful lions, where the sub adult and cub playing was a bonus moment ?
5 Vuyela/River Pride males on a kill, with 1 lioness, 1 week ago at Baobab Game Lodge:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Its still a mystery if this males are actually a young River Pride males, or a different males,lets hope that this mystery will be solved soon.
The mighty Giraffe male relaxes for a drink at Royal Malewane.
- Posted by Rudi Hulshof, Dec 14, 2019.  *This image is copyright of its original author
Black Dam male
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
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