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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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The last post, I think, settles the affair in that there is no doubt that biologists care about wild big cats and will do their utmost to prevent problems. Collars are used to get to information needed to get to knowledge needed to protect big cats. If things go wrong, the cause often is a lack of proper management.
There is, of course, the issue on the use of Aldrich foot snares. I will post the article on the disadvantages of foot snares in Russia in some time. The article, if I remember correct, had an effect in that the issue was discussed. In some parts of Primorye, Aldrich foot snares are no longer used. I am, apart from the article mentioned, not aware of a new paper, but I could be wrong. EDIT (December 18, 2014) I do not doubt some posters will disagree with the conclusion I got to. They have the right to respond, but I want them to follow a few rules. I posted a peer-reviewed article and expect the same from other posters. If a poster disagrees, he has to deliver an article or something similar in weight proving the opposite. Anything on big cats and collars will do. When he has made his point in this way, it's up to others to find something proving the opposite (or something that could result in reasonable doubt). In this thread, readers are treated like members of a jury. This is different from television in that those watching a program often have no other option than to swallow what they are offered. In this thread, those interested have the opportunity to get to an opinion. They are the only ones. Opinions of posters are out. They present the evidence. All clear?
TEN LESSONS FROM A TIGER - JOHN VAILLANT
I saw an interview about the book some years ago, but I didn't know about this interesting speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6J7_nZi9LQ For those who didn't read the book: it's great and it's cheap. A rare combination. 
Just listened to the speech; really great! -I will have to wait for his book to make it's way to Amazon. I cannot afford the prices. But, I did order his book: Tiger, a Story of Vengeance and Survival.
(12-18-2014, 09:49 PM)'peter' Wrote: The last post, I think, settles the affair in that there is no doubt that biologists care about wild big cats and will do their utmost to prevent problems. Collars are used to get to information needed to get to knowledge needed to protect big cats. If things go wrong, the cause often is a lack of proper management. It's about what's in the edit. The first one I expect to see is PC. I'm interested. (12-19-2014, 05:07 PM)'brotherbear' Wrote: Just listened to the speech; really great! -I will have to wait for his book to make it's way to Amazon. I cannot afford the prices. But, I did order his book: Tiger, a Story of Vengeance and Survival. I agree on the speech: very interesting. He did take a few short cuts, though. The tiger was, as he said, shot by a hunter (who also took his boar), but before the tiger retaliated, psychological pressure was applied. This was so clear, that others noticed the hunter, after some time, was suffering from the effects. Another thing is Vaillant, in his 10 lessons, said life isn't about vengeance. But it was for the tiger, because he was shot and dismissed. Things, therefore, change when limits have been crossed. It's about crossing limits and the results. Humans do it all the time and we all know what the effects are. It's in this respect we can learn from tigers (and all other animals) in that they only take what they need to live. Restraint, however, is only a nine-letter word for many of us.
TRADE IN TIGERS AND OTHER WILD CATS IN TWO BORDER TOWNS IN MYANMAR
The abstract shows Myanmar is losing wild animals at an alarming rate. At least 207 tigers were lost between 1991-2014. China, unfortunately, is again heavily involved: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320714004121
"Tiger, a Story of Vemgeance and Survival" by John Vallant... thought I was ordering a book; I recieved a 10 compact discs set. Not sure when I might watch it. While my own health is far from perfect, I am also a care-giver for an old friend. She cannot stand and walk; so I seldom sit still for any long period of time. Perhaps at some point when she is sleeping soundly.
Anyway, I wish to learn more about the Amur tiger. This is probably a good start. (12-26-2014, 11:16 PM)'brotherbear' Wrote: "Tiger, a Story of Vemgeance and Survival" by John Vallant... thought I was ordering a book; I recieved a 10 compact discs set. Not sure when I might watch it. While my own health is far from perfect, I am also a care-giver for an old friend. She cannot stand and walk; so I seldom sit still for any long period of time. Perhaps at some point when she is sleeping soundly. A man caring for an old friend is a good man. I'd advice to try again (you want a book and not a compact disc). When you get the book, you might contemplate reading it to her. It's a forgotten skill, but often much appreciated. Sorry about the very late reply. I was out and when I returned I was too busy. See my last post.
A FIGHT BETWEEN TWO MALE AMUR TIGERS
When I visited Grahh's forum Shaggy God (yes, bears) in order to locate a post with information on a book apparently published by one the Jankowski's recently, I found this photograph. It was posted by Warsaw on January 15 of this year. The post also has a short article. It's in Russian, but you can use the translator. The article says there was a fight between two male tigers in eastern Russia recently. One was a male with a front pad width of 11 cm. Most of his teeth were missing or worn down, which means he was very old and close to the end of the ride. His opponent had a front pad width of 9,5 cm. only, which means he probably was far from maturity. In spite of the lack of age and experience, the youngster won the fight. A bit unusual maybe, but there are more reliable reports about young male tigers (2-4 years old) beating older adversaries, both in the wild and in captivity. The tiger in the picture seems a bit small for an old male, but that's because a significant part of him was consumed by his opponent. A tiger usually eats what he kills and cannibalism isn't unknown in big cats. Far from it, I would say. Besides, it was winter and food is scarce. There's a bit of psychology as well. There's nothing as satisfactory as consuming your enemy after a good fight. In this way, you get a decent reward for a risky undertaking in a difficult time. Furthermore, you'll take the courage of your opponent as well. Courage? If you doubt my words, read a bit about humans. Say one century ago. Many Europeans who visited villages in wild places noticed fear was quite common. The reason was other villages. Raids were common in those days. It usually was about the abduction of women and children, but men killed during these raids were considered as extra. Slain enemies usually were decapitated and/or (partly) eaten. To get the courage as well as a few other things. It was quite popular and my guess is many would continue the habit given half the chance. Go to New-Guinea and learn a bit if you are interested. But one has to admit big cats are better at it. I read reports about fights between male tigers in India and the details described were astonishing. I'll post some reports in the future:  *This image is copyright of its original author
ABSENCE
My last post was almost a month ago. There are a few reasons for the lack of activity. One is sitting behind a screen every day is far from healthy. Two is I was out. Three is I ordered books. I want to read them and use the information for what I will call the tiger files from now on. Four is tables. I now have enough data to start constructing tables on all big cats and distinguish between wild and captive. This, however, takes a lot of time and concentration. You have to stick to it until the work is done. I need the tables for the book. They are, in fact, the foundation. For this reason, accuracy is important. Finally, I discovered a new source of information. The Dutch, when they were in Indonesia, hunted. Not as much as in India as a result of the terrain (dense jungle, a tropical climate, insects and plenty of diseases yet to be discovered), but they did it anyhow. What they saw and experienced, was recorded. Some of the records were sent to magazins. I knew about them, but couldn't locate them. Now I have. My guess is the information will be valuable, as it is about tiger subspecies that have disappeared. Everything is first-hand. To read the magazins, I have to go to museums and universities. The reason is the information hasn't been digitalized. This will take a lot of time. For this reason, posting will suffer. Every now and then, however, I will post. This forum, as we intended when we started, will have unique information. One day, it will be visited by many really interested in good information and reliable data. All clear? 
That consumed tiger definitely looks to small to be a male, but like you stated, much of it was consumed. The weird part is, the Head and front portion is consumed and that is not where the "good stuff" is. If you watch predators eat prey, they always start with the organs, which are the most nutrient rich, they also usually eat the rear portion first. I wonder if consuming the head "weapons" is more of a spite move.
Who knows for sure
THE SIZE OF WILD MALE AMUR TIGERS
a - Healthy tigers I agree the tiger, judging from the length of the tail, the body and the hind legs, seems to be a bit small for an adult male. But maybe he was well below par in most departments in his prime and maybe this, apart from his age, was the reason he wasn't able to survive a fight with an immature. When we think of adult male Amur tigers, we often see the giant Sungari River tiger shot by the Jankowski's, the giant Duisburg Zoo male and the many others photographed from a nice angle. But they were the exceptions. According to the WCS-table, wild male Amur tigers of 36 months and over ranged between 178 and 208 cm. in head and body (measured 'over curves') and 125-200 kg. in weight back then (about a decade ago), but males of 212, 207, 204 and 200 kg. (more than once) have been captured later on. We now know males of 36 months and older range between 155-212 kg. in weight. If we use 48 months as the threshold for adulthood (most authorities would agree on 4-5 years for males), the range would be 170-212 kg. Impressive by any standard, but weightwise probably below par in most parts of India and just about similar to or a trifle heavier than Kruger lions. In good conditions, healthy male Amur tigers, according to someone who had personal experience and weighed Amur tigers himself (Eagle Raptor, who posted at AVA) average 480-500 pounds (217,7-226,8 kg.) and a table posted by someone interested some time ago confirmed he wasn't far from the mark. But I also saw adult males who ranged between 350-400 pounds (158,8-181,4 kg.) and the male I weighed, at 298,0 cm. in total length (after 7 weeks of starvation), was 185,5 kg. (409 pounds). That male, by the way, was 312,5 cm., 'over curves'. One of the other seven Amur tigers I saw in the rescue centre I visited, some years later, scaled 211 kg. (weighed at Schiphol Airport). In my opinion, most captive males range between 400-500 pounds (181,4-226,8 kg.). A male over 550 pounds (249,5 kg.) is a very large one. Animals of 600 pounds (272,2 kg.) and over in good shape are very few. b - Problem tigers There also are 'problem' tigers. Adult male problem tigers only very seldom exceed 150 kg. and most never get to even that weight. One male starved to death was only 70 kg. when he was found (Mazak, 1983). Many 'problem' females struggle to get to 100 kg. Unhealthy wild Amur tigers, like 'Schatuns', often are desperate animals capable of anything. Because of this, many perish well before their time. If it hadn't been for the long table of 'problem' tigers found dead over the years (WCS), chances are we would never have heard of them. But they were there and there will always be 'problem' tigers in Russia. The reason is tough conditions. Remember the bear-killer with different nick-names? In his prime, at 445 pounds, 'Dale' was bragging about all the bears he had killed. There were interviews and there was airplay. Then, for some reason, he lost three canines and 75 pounds. But they found him and he recovered using one canine only. He finally entered the famous WCS-table at about 424 pounds (192 kg.), but it could have been 375 pounds if he would have been weighed during his downfall. In the end, everything you read depends. On individuals, the time of year, the selection of what a healthy animal is and a whole lot more. We could construct a special table of healthy giants suited for leaflets, flyers, specials and everything related. The table itself might be correct (there are quite many reliable records of large animals accurately measured and weighed), but it will never be a true representation of the entire wild population. In benign conditions, wild male Amur tigers might get to the average for captive males (480-500 pounds), but in wild Russia a male over 200 kg. (440 pounds) is impressive. c - Why small tigers have a chance in Russia After reading the previous paragraphs, the question, of course, is why some males well below par get to adulthood at all, not to mention a long and healthy life, in spite of the tough conditions. The answer is quite simple. About a century ago, Amur tigers were still seen not that far from Lake Baikal and in Manchuria. The historic range of Amur tigers was impressive. Today's Amur tigers only occupy a small part of it. Most of their former range, however, still is quite suited. Furthermore, they are welcome. The Chinese want them and the Russians prefer them over wolves. Suppose you are an Amur tiger and your mom was killed at a young age. As a result of a shortage of food and stress, you didn't get to your potential in a vital part of your life. You made it to adulthood, but suffer from countless health roblems and, most important, a lack of size. At 173 cm. in head and body fully stretched, a miserable tail, taping only 88 cm. at the shoulder in your prime and weighing only 161 kg. after a decent meal you got by displacing a miniature bear, you face a life filled with problems anywhere. Competition and all that. Not so in wild Russia. You can just walk away from it all and end up in a remote place with zero competition when you keep on walking (in Russia, tigers have walked 1000 km. in 22 days only). You thrive on animals who never saw a tiger and get to 175 kg. After some years, you meet a tigress prepared to accept you for lack of other males. And in tough times, the Chinese are prepared to offer you and your family a few young bullocks when you leave them alone. How lucky can you get? Maybe this is how males like the 'Lazy Tiger' (see my post on 'Winter Ecology of the Amur Tiger' - A.G. Yudakov and I.G. Nikolaev - 2nd revised edition - 2012, pp. 83) got the chance to get to quite a full life. True, he was killed in a fight, but competition would have been much less severe in a remote region. He knew he should have walked away from it all, but he couldn't. The reason is he couldn't walk, let alone participate in nordic long distance walking. He had to rest very often, hence his nickname. But he wasn't lazy. It was them bones and the autopsy showed he had been right. Maybe the Lazy Tiger wasn't the only one who suffered from problems. Maybe the tiger that perished in the snow also was a 'problem' tiger who got the chance to grow old. Until he met the youngster. 
Interesting analysis Peter, very complete as is usual in you.
However, that dead tiger in the picture can't be an adult, it is soooooooo small!!!! Check this one:  *This image is copyright of its original author This is a female cub (1.5 years old) of 94 kg (Cinderella) and she is already larger than the supposed "adult male". Something in the story seems wrong, maybe the dead tiger was the subadult, that will fit much more with the picture.
Agreed, Guate. The male tiger killed in a fight was a very small male, if it was an adult male at all. I propose to post the article Warsaw posted as well (in the Shaggy God forum).
The points made, however, stand. I saw healthy adult male Amur tigers in captivity hardly larger than an adult female and I saw them more than once. For indirect proof, I would propose to read the table posted not so long ago on captive Amur tigers. They are there in captivity and I do not doubt they are in wild Russia as well. The reason was given and I think the 'Lazy Tiger' was a confirmation. Maybe you can find something more in the article I referred to. It's in Russian and it's possible the machine made a mistake translating the text. Warsaw, however, got to the same conclusion: the old boy (pad width 11,0 cm.) was killed in a fight with an immature male (pad width 9,5 cm.).
A FIGHT BETWEEN TIGERS IN DARRANG, ASSAM - A LETTER IN THE JBNHS
A few miles from Darrang (Assam), two large male tigers met and fought. From the date given in the letter (the night of January 30-31, not sure about the year, but I thought it was 1930), one would think the fight happened in the breeding season. The tiger killed was a big, old male. His lower jaw was wrenched off, his fore-arms were chewed off at the elbows and his abdomen had been torn open. His external genitals had been removed and most of his tail had been bitten off. Apart from that, the three claws of the left middle foot were missing:  *This image is copyright of its original author
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