Can we tell how big cats are doing by the number of wild dogs in the area?

[Siegfried]

I find both the following scenarios to be plausible...

Tiger encounters an unsuspecting bear (even a fairly large one though probably not MAX sized) then in stalking mode gets close enough to quickly apply throat bite in an act of predation.

Large bear encounters tiger (any size except perhaps MAX sized) even at kill site and dominates the tiger.  The tiger at some point could flee.  If it doesn't flee, it possibly could be killed.

Whether or not there are "verified accounts" of things occurring, I believe part of why we are here is simply to hypothesize possible outcomes in situations of interaction between competing species.

So even if there is "no evidence of male tigers displaced at kill sites." in my opinion, it probably has happened.



  Reply

[Pckts]

Interesting enough in regards to Puma vs Wolf predation, it comes down to one thing....
Trees.

Boone Smith made a great point, as the reintroduced wolf started to gain territory they found occasional pumas who had been attacked or killed by wolf packs but the areas that this occured where in treeless spots. But there was a opposite effect, in the areas where the puma could easily find cover or even attack from cover, they found wolves killed by puma.
A great video he showed is a puma casually walking up a slope, the first pack member walks past him and the Puma pays little attention to it, then the alpha its mate appear and they attack the Puma and finally the Puma makes a break for it and leaves the dogs in the dust. (Very impressive to see how fast a Puma actually is compared to Wolves).
But its reaction showed me what they think of one wolf compared to a Pack.

In regards to Dhole v Tiger Encounters, I am with Gaute on that one. I see no reason for a Dhole pack to give up 15+ members of its pack for a single Tiger kill. 2ndly, I highly doubt a tiger would allow it self to be killed by a pack. The same happens with a Lion, they will fight till they feel they cannot win, then they run. The advantage a big cat has over a wild dog is not only size, but its the abbility to determine when the fight is lost and escape. Wild dogs do not have this option, even young male lions have made breaks for it from a Hyenna clan. I don't think a prime male lion has much to concern himself with in regards to a hyenna clan unless of course its a very large clan. But if either had to compete with a Grey wolf pack I think the pack would probably win some battles or at least drive the cats off. If they can compete with Bear I am sure they could compete with Lions or Tigers from time to time. Reply

[smedz]

I'm with GuateGojira, Pckts, and Pantherinae on this whole thing. Personally I've never believed the old stories to be true because why such intelligent animals would sacrifice a large amount of their members is beyond me. But let's all look at the situation shall we?  

African Lions and African Wild Dogs- In this relationship, it's definitely one where the dog ISN'T chasing the cat, as Lions cause more wild dog deaths than just about anything else if I'm not mistaken. Now wild dogs can be in groups of up to 30 but of course that doesn't help against big cats that are social.  

Tigers, Dholes, and Wolves- There are many tales of Dholes attacking and killing healthy adult tigers, but there is no evidence to support these claims, but we have plenty of evidence of vice versa. In the Russian Far Eastern Forests, it is very well known that Siberian Tigers hunt wolves to the point of almost localized extinction, and this happens to be why hunters prefer tigers over wolves, and also the fact that tigers don't limit ungulate populations as much as wolves do. But these animals are social, so how can solitary tigers be dominant over them? Well, a tiger weighs several times more than both species and has enough strength to kill a Dhole or a wolf with a single strikes from the paw and claws, and like spotted hyenas with male Lions, canids clearly are aware in the difference in power between felines. I should also say that I did read somewhere that in 19 locations in Asia where camera traps were set up, Dholes were absent where tigers were caught on camera traps more frequently.

Leopards, Dholes, Wolves, and African Wild Dogs: Unlike the other two cats already mentioned, a leopard is solitary unlike the lion, and it also doesn't have the size and power to kill several pack members, meaning canids can act much more aggressively to leopards than the bigger cats, resulting in leopards getting chased up into trees by the dogs. But leopards can fight back by killing canids on their own, or by killing them when they're resting at night.  In India, it has actually been suspected that the intrusion of leopards in Melkote Temple Wildlife Sanctuary in Karnataka has resulted in the exclusion of wolves there, and some people have actually reported leopards eating young wolves.  AlexE did post some pictures of fur from a wolf killed by a Persian Leopard, and a Persian Leopard following a wolf in the felid interspecific conflicts thread. 

Snow Leopards, Dholes, and Wolves: There is one account of a Snow Leopard taking a kill away from 4 Dholes I think it was, not sure on their interactions with wolves. 

Cheetahs and Wild dogs: I'll just say this, you'd better believe the dogs are chasing the cat.  

Jaguars, Cougars, Bush Dogs, and Maned Wolves: There are actually no records of Bush Dogs interacting with the big cats, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and these dogs live in small groups, and if I had to speculate, since their groups are small and since they're so small, literally only about 15 pounds, I'd bet that even the cougars dominate them. As for Maned Wolves who are probably sick of people calling them Maned "wolves" when they aren't wolves in the first place, they are solitary, and let's face it, no dog stands a chance against a big cat by itself, and it has now been confirmed that cougars do dominate Maned Wolves. 

Cougars, Wolves, and Coyotes: Cougars dominate coyotes, but wolves are a different story. Cougars have been killed by wolf packs, as cougars like leopards don't have the power to kill many pack members and that wolves in North America are in the same weight range as a typical cougar. But these happen in more open spaces, in places like the Bitterroot Mountains, wolf packs are smaller due to the habitat, and the cougars are therefore more confident in their ability to fight wolves and they can put their ambush skills to better use, and wolves have been killed by cougars in these regions. However, the fact that wolves form bigger groups in open spaces is what keeps cougars in the forested areas in the first place.  

So that's my take on this whole thing. Reply

[smedz]

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case. Reply

[Pantherinae]

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals! Reply

[smedz]

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

This is great! Thank you very much! Reply

[Shadow]

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

One thing also to think about, when we think century like 1800-1900... how often people had cameras there in that time when in the jungle?   It is one thing to say, that there are not confirmed cases, which could be verified with 100% certainty. But then another to call everyone telling something, what sounds odd, as people telling fairy tales to sell books. From you especially I would expect something more analytical and with better reasoning Reply

[Pantherinae]

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

Reply

[Pantherinae]

(02-10-2019, 10:39 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

https:

The reason I’m asking questions is because it goes against everything. 
Why would dholes attack an adult tiger? In Nagarahole I’ve seen massive dhole packs and I have never seen them target female gaurs and no tigers have been killed. 
They are wild animals after all, and won’t be suicidal and attack tigers. And for an animal arround 20 kg it’s hard to even injure an animals that big. 

Ignore the books, and look at interractions between the species and both animals behavior. 
That tells me it has never happend, and never will. If a tiger was attacked by them and realisere it was in trouble it would find the nearest tree. 
And more surprising things have happend you say? I would love an example.

About the lioness: It’s been posted here before that she survives. I heard it from the guy who filmed, that the lioness was seen the next day with her cubs. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-10-2019, 11:00 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:39 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

https:

The reason I’m asking questions is because it goes against everything. 
Why would dholes attack an adult tiger? In Nagarahole I’ve seen massive dhole packs and I have never seen them target female gaurs and no tigers have been killed. 
They are wild animals after all, and won’t be suicidal and attack tigers. And for an animal arround 20 kg it’s hard to even injure an animals that big. 

Ignore the books, and look at interractions between the species and both animals behavior. 
That tells me it has never happend, and never will. If a tiger was attacked by them and realisere it was in trouble it would find the nearest tree. 
And more surprising things have happend you say? I would love an example.

About the lioness: It’s been posted here before that she survives. I heard it from the guy who filmed, that the lioness was seen the next day with her cubs.

Yes I know why you ask question, I ask too. Why should I ignore everything I read, when I can see so many things happen today too when comparing observations back then and video footage from today. What comes to tigers and dholes, we are not talking about something, what would be happening all the time, but about rare and exceptional cases. Those do happen time to time.

It is not about it if an animal weighing 20 kg could injure a tiger, of course it can. It is about it, that do they that and if, in what kind of circumstances it might happen. It for sure demands something special and I think, that also some exceptional dholes to start something like that and that could be the thing triggering the rest of the pack going for it. Here then again it is good to remember, that tiger is an animal too, 15-30 smaller animals running all around is a thing, where it is easy to think, that tiger would do quite same as we have seen lions do with hyenas and wild dogs. Some confusion, some attacks and looking for a way out of that situation. If same time snapping here and there causing pain and distress, situation is far from easy to any animal.

And what comes to tiger climbing to tree as you suggest in distress, it is behavior described in past, that tigers can climb to the tree to escape. If there is enough confusion, I think, that it might happen in present time too if tiger is really out of comfort zone

And examples, for instance those 400 wolves in Siberia was quite something, then for instance that case from Ethiopia, where lion pride and hyena pack fought for a longer period of time before hyenas gave up (from that I try to find more information btw). Then there are animals, which can freeze and next spring wake up. Whales swimming to beach in big numbers to die without help, a cat attacking an alligator, lions attacking and killing rhinos sometimes. I just came home, I will put some others when I have had some coffee :)

And nice, that the lioness in that video survived, it doesn´t happen alway as  footage I shared showed :) 

But what comes to dholes and tigers, there we have clear disagreement to what we keep possible. That is not so important because as it has been seen many times, people can look at same things and make different conclusions. But what comes to some books and claiming, that people write there fairy tales to sell better. I understand that claim with some books, but then there are others where that kind of claim just doesn´t fit. For instance what comes to Sterndale and Sankhala as I mentioned, very good writing, good observations and clearly also source criticism there. I can´t see any reason for them to write something if they would know it to be nonsense. There is too big contradiction to write otherwise things as they are and then in one issue start to make up things.

Is there some information, which has some open questions is one thing, another thing is then, that did they see and hear enough to convince them about something. But luckily it looks like, that there is ongoing research concerning dholes, maybe this one "grey area" concerning their reputation gets clearer soon :) Reply

[smedz]

(02-10-2019, 11:00 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:39 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

https:

The reason I’m asking questions is because it goes against everything. 
Why would dholes attack an adult tiger? In Nagarahole I’ve seen massive dhole packs and I have never seen them target female gaurs and no tigers have been killed. 
They are wild animals after all, and won’t be suicidal and attack tigers. And for an animal arround 20 kg it’s hard to even injure an animals that big. 

Ignore the books, and look at interractions between the species and both animals behavior. 
That tells me it has never happend, and never will. If a tiger was attacked by them and realisere it was in trouble it would find the nearest tree. 
And more surprising things have happend you say? I would love an example.

About the lioness: It’s been posted here before that she survives. I heard it from the guy who filmed, that the lioness was seen the next day with her cubs.

Alright, I'll take your advice on that. Seeing as though you have lots of experience with this. Plus my grandfather did teach me not to believe everything I read. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-11-2019, 05:03 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 11:00 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:39 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

https:

The reason I’m asking questions is because it goes against everything. 
Why would dholes attack an adult tiger? In Nagarahole I’ve seen massive dhole packs and I have never seen them target female gaurs and no tigers have been killed. 
They are wild animals after all, and won’t be suicidal and attack tigers. And for an animal arround 20 kg it’s hard to even injure an animals that big. 

Ignore the books, and look at interractions between the species and both animals behavior. 
That tells me it has never happend, and never will. If a tiger was attacked by them and realisere it was in trouble it would find the nearest tree. 
And more surprising things have happend you say? I would love an example.

About the lioness: It’s been posted here before that she survives. I heard it from the guy who filmed, that the lioness was seen the next day with her cubs.

Alright, I'll take your advice on that. Seeing as though you have lots of experience with this. Plus my grandfather did teach me not to believe everything I read.

That is a good advice, especially when some biologists spends years on the field personally and is telling about his/hers observations. Tourists visiting some place 1-2 times in safari cars are of course having much more competence and expertise, than people spending countless days, nights and hours somewhere  I find your way to think quite.... heh Reply

[smedz]

(02-11-2019, 11:42 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-11-2019, 05:03 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 11:00 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:39 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 10:20 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 09:53 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:55 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 08:35 AM)smedz Wrote:

(01-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Spalea I really don't belive one bit that wild dogs can have a single chance against lions, my own personal experience is that I have seen lions walk right in and steal the kill from 15-20 wild dogs, killing them by running right into a pack of them. and one lioness walking thru a big pack wild dogs. wild dogs are formidable predators and I have alot of respect for them, but storries about them compeating with lions and even killing them is just not true.. even big packs of wild dogs can't manage to kill single hyenas, large blue wildebeast etc. and no way they kill lions. 

same with dhole's they are formidable animals. but serriously a tiger? a tiger do not have to fear wild dog's one bit. there are some big dhole packs in tadoba, but tigers do not fear them, trust me! and also the old storries was "several wild dogs fighting one male tiger several dogs died during that fight" I do not think any animals of any times did fights like this, those kind of storries you hear alot from the past and old storries, like two male lions vs 35 hyenas several hyenas died and the lion survived, it's over dramaticiced storries all of them. 

and yes @Pckts I do think big cats, does have a negative effect on dogs. I have seen both leopards and several lions with killed wild dogs! aswell as tigers killing dholes, and heared about how siberian tiger apperences can make all wolves in the area dissapere.  

We're any of those Lions males by any chance? Just wondering. Believe me, I agree with you on Dholes and tigers. According to Dr. Kamler, a guy who studies wild canids apparently, wild dogs prefer to live in large packs so they can be effective in keeping other packs out of their hunting grounds. Since that's the case, Dholes need all the adult pack members for defending territories, and if a tiger killed about let's say a dozen Dholes in combat, then the pack becomes more vulnerable to being overopowered by a larger pack, so there really is no advantage to being suicidal in their case.

Yes it’s both males and lionesses. 
They won’t mess with those guys. 
Yes if they where to try and kill a lion/tiger they would likely all die either on the spot or from injuries, and the cats would most likely leave alive. Also if the cats realise they where in trouble they would jump into a tree. Nothing makes sense. It’s all pure fairytales, to sell books. That’s why I always need photograpic evidence before I belive anything. 

 
Here is a video of a male lion with wild dogs. 

 

And here you can see how durable a lion is, she survives this attack. And spotted hyenas are bigger and much stronger than any living canid. As well as more numerous and can live in clans of up to 80-90 animals!

Heh, is here also tiger-dhole thread ; Well I disagree about what you write, that all fairy tales. I simply don´t think, that someone like Sterndale writes so good information and then suddenly starts to put fairy tales there. Could you tell me how do you feel, when you read he´s text? It is one thing to have doubts, but now I think, that you say quite much against your better judgement.

No I can’t see a dhole pack kill a tiger... it really doesn’t make sense. 
If the tiger was in trouble it would jump up the nearest tree. 
And why would dholes attack an animal that would likely kill half the pack?  
That would be insane, male tigers are 200+ kg animals.
It doesn’t make sense.

Yes I know, that you have doubts. There we can disagree naturally and no problem. But I am interested about your claim, that people writing that to books would be writing fairy tales to sell books. I don´t see any sense in that, when mentioning for instance names like Sterndale and let´s say Sankhala. That was quite strong statement to write like that, I think.

I do have doubts too for many cases, but I don´t dare to say about things, that no way ever just because I haven´t seen it, if it is still possible. As I have said before, there have been much more surprising things happening in wildlife than some dead tigers by dholes would be. Many things, which can be called insane. And even suicidal behavior from animals, if those would be common behavior cases.

Btw in that video of yours was said, that no certainty if that lioness survived, you wrote, that it didn´t die, you have some extra information about that case? Anyway here is one case, where this lion looks like to die.

https:

The reason I’m asking questions is because it goes against everything. 
Why would dholes attack an adult tiger? In Nagarahole I’ve seen massive dhole packs and I have never seen them target female gaurs and no tigers have been killed. 
They are wild animals after all, and won’t be suicidal and attack tigers. And for an animal arround 20 kg it’s hard to even injure an animals that big. 

Ignore the books, and look at interractions between the species and both animals behavior. 
hat tells me it has never happend, and never will. If a tiger was attacked by them and realisere it was in trouble it would find the nearest tree. 
And more surprising things have happend you say? I would love an example.

About the lioness: It’s been posted here before that she survives. I heard it from the guy who filmed, that the lioness was seen the next day with her cubs.

Alright, I'll take your advice on that. Seeing as though you have lots of experience with this. Plus my grandfather did teach me not to believe everything I read.

That is a good advice, especially when some biologists spends years on the field personally and is telling about his/hers observations. Tourists visiting some place 1-2 times in safari cars are of course having much more competence and expertise, than people spending countless days, nights and hours somewhere  I find your way to think quite.... heh

Very funny, first off, I'm just taking Rishi's advice and taking this guy's advice. He clearly knows a lot about animals, and you know what, for the fact that Sankhala said the Dholes scared all the game away and the tigers weren't at least trying to drive them out just doesn't make sense to me. Pantherinae has made some good contributions to this forum, so you have no right to tell me not to take advice from him, nor do I have the right to do something similar. I'm sure he has visited some places more than 1-2 times, but I'm not certain. Besides, I do think he studies African big cats time to time, so he is a reliable source thank you very much. Reply