Dholes (Cuon alpinus)

[Shadow]

(01-26-2019, 07:06 PM)Panther Wrote:

(01-26-2019, 07:02 PM)Shadow Wrote: Nice one and I agree, that that wound doesn´t look like to be caused by dholes. I wonder if there is a dead tiger somewhere paying the price for causing that wound.... when ambush doesn´t work out tiger needs to be quick to flee when that big bull turns around...

Dead tiger? You think if ambush fail, tiger is gonna die?
Killing tiger is hardly that simple, for you?

I was wondering, I just read from Kailash Sankhala about a case, where he found three dead tigers after confrontation with a gaur. If gaur manages to gore and stomp it, then it will die. Being stomped by an animal weighing a ton is quite dangerous. Reply

[Panther]

(01-26-2019, 07:36 PM)Shadow Wrote: I was wondering, I just read from Kailash Sankhala about a case, where he found three dead tigers after confrontation with a gaur. I don´t think, that tiger will die for being frightened if ambush is failiar, but if gaur manages to gore and stomp it, then it can die. Being stomped by an animal weighing a ton is quite dangerous, I think Even for a tiger.

Is there any details of those tigers other than telling story?

Adults won't hunt as group, so it's usually 3 inexperienced- subadults or a mother with two youngsters. 
Of course, but killing a experienced adult tiger is harder for a guar. As it can't catch much agile tiger. And these are exceptions... Reply

[Shadow]

Here is one study about dholes, good information about behavior etc. and overall information.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...on_alpinus Reply

[Shadow]

(01-26-2019, 07:42 PM)Panther Wrote:

(01-26-2019, 07:36 PM)Shadow Wrote: I was wondering, I just read from Kailash Sankhala about a case, where he found three dead tigers after confrontation with a gaur. I don´t think, that tiger will die for being frightened if ambush is failiar, but if gaur manages to gore and stomp it, then it can die. Being stomped by an animal weighing a ton is quite dangerous, I think Even for a tiger.

Is there any details of those tigers other than telling story?

Adults won't hunt as group, so it's usually 3 inexperienced- subadults or a mother with two youngsters. 
Of course, but killing a experienced adult tiger is harder for a guar. As it can't catch much agile tiger. And these are exceptions...

Kailash Sankhala: Tiger! The Story of the Indian Tiger.
Find it and read it if anyone happens to be interested about tigers. I don't continue about this issue more in this dhole thread, that was just one thought written here, if there is a need to discuss more and people interested in it, maybe gaur thread is better place. Reply

[Panther]

(01-26-2019, 07:57 PM)Shadow Wrote: I don't continue about this issue more in this dhole thread, that was just one thought written here, if there is a need to discuss more and people interested in it, maybe gaur thread is better place.

I don't buy it. You can do it to prove your case, I'll wait. Reply

[Shadow]

Here is link to study about food habits of dholes. When opening a link, there is wild dog paper pdf file and it can be downloaded and there is whole study. It doesn´t open up straight away when opening that link.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...Nadu_India Reply

[Shadow]

This is food habit study from Java, Indonesia concerning dholes:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._INDONESIA Reply

[Rishi]

(01-26-2019, 08:25 PM)Shadow Wrote: Here is link to study about food habits of dholes. When opening a link, there is wild dog paper pdf file and it can be downloaded and there is whole study. It doesn´t open up straight away when opening that link.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...Nadu_India

Good stuff!

Copy-paste the most interesting info in the forum. Like this:

Quote:We have analysed 78 scats in which 10 prey species were consumed by dhole. Brillouin diversity index
shows that analysed scat was adequate in our study area and it was stabilized at 55 th scat (Fig 2). Sambar was
representing 25 times followed by wild pig was 18 times and the lowest contribution was gaur (n=2) and
chital (n=2).

Ten prey species were consumed by dholes in which Sambar was consumed highest
percentage (30.77%) followed by wild pig (23.08%) and lowest was Jungle fowl (0.063%). In terms of biomass
contribution sambar was highest (78.70%) while jungle fowl was lowest contribution (3.85%).

Reply

[Shadow]

One more about distribution of dholes. Look at those question marks on map...

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:
"Current distribution
Central and eastern Asia: There have been no confirmed,
recent reports of dholes from Russia, Mongolia,
Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan (where they were found formerly
in the Tian-Shan area), or Tajikistan (where they were
found formerly in the eastern Pamir area) (A. Poyarkov
and N. Ovsyanikov in litt. D. Miquelle pers. comm.).
There is a recent report of a dhole that was captured in
Jiangxi district, south China (C. Bellamy pers. comm.).
Dholes were once present in parts of western China in the
Tian-Shan Range, but the species’ current status in this
area is unclear. The species is still found in Tibet today,
particularly in areas bordering the Ladakh region of India
(R. Wangchuk pers. comm.), and the Tibet Forestry Bureau
has reported that dholes are still “common” in parts of
south-east Tibet (S. Chan, in litt.). Dholes occurred in
northern Korea (Won Chang Man and Smith 1999) and a
few small populations may still exist. There have been no
records from Pakistan, but the species occurred on the
alpine steppes of Ladakh, Kashmir, and India (Johnsingh
1985) that extend into the region termed Pakistan-occupied
Kashmir by India."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...on_alpinus Reply

[smedz]

(01-26-2019, 08:04 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(01-26-2019, 07:49 AM)smedz Wrote: Besides, a lioness doesn't have enough power to kill a hyena or I doubt a wild dog..

Yes they do... Even leopards do.

In the meantime, don't use hyenas as reference for behaviour of wild dogs. They are different animals, hardwired completely differently, to react to the same situation in different way.

WHOOPS!! My bad, I meant to say that a lioness unlike a male lion doesn't have the power to kill those animals with a single swipe from it's paw. Sorry for not making that clear. I just want you to know that while we may not agree on this debate, I do respect your opinion and I'm thankful for the assistance you gave me. I saw you boosted my reputation due to a post on this thread I think, which one was it? Reply

[Wolverine]

(01-26-2019, 03:15 AM)smedz Wrote:  The only way I'll ever believe these tales is if I ever see a film, photograph, or an actually verified account. Not eyewitness testimony, the weakest form of evidence.

Eyewitnessing is the main form of the field zoology since centuries. If we deny eyewitnessing there is nothing to be left from traditional science. Videos and advanced cameras exist from several decades. What else could have done a classical biologist or hunter than to observe and register on paper. To "prove" something in the science doesnt mean to make a photo or video, that's ridicolous. When Jane Goodal observed chimps or Diane Fossey - gorillas their main instruments were notebook and pencil, they didn't need to prove their theories by videos, nevertheless we believe them.


You need a photo or video prove. Ok, you can for now (temporarily) consider the video showing how pack of AWD (African wild dogs) attacked the lioness, (posted by Rishi) as a 50% prove that same thing could be done by IWD (Indian wild dogs) to tiger; there is no big difference. Look carefuly what could eventually happen to the tiger:

Filming in the open plains of Africa is 50 times easier than filming in the dense jungles of India and India is still not so attractive for proffesional photographs. To every gaur hunted by tiger in India shot on camera we have probably 200 videos of cape bufallos hunted by lions filmed in Africa. So in order to film a tiger attacked by IWD probably we need 200 more years.... And when this happen probably we're  not gonna see almost nothing from the scene due to the branches and the leafes of the trees. Only option is development of some new technologies permiting jungles to be screened or thousands of drones...

I think brother you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to convince that dholes attacked and killed tigers but only try to convince that there is enough high possibility something like this did happen. I don't believe 100% in dholes killing tigers, probably... 50/50, nor less than 50% and no more than 50%.

Here is piece of news about attack from 2013, I think not very reliable, that's why I'm not posting the info, only give a link, from Panna NP:

https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/...77236.html Reply

[Rishi]

(01-27-2019, 12:30 PM)Wolverine Wrote: To every gaur hunted by tiger in India shot on camera we have probably 200 videos of cape bufallos hunted by lions filmed in Africa. So in order to film a tiger attacked by IWD probably we need 200 more years.

I don't believe 100% in dholes killing tigers, probably... 50/50, nor less than 50% and no more than 50%.

At the present rate of development of wildlife tourism in Indian & conservation successes, 20 years should be enough.
And dholes probably will never "dominate" (dancing around not counted) tigers 50% of times. That'd take 20+ experienced adults & aggressive leadership, a combination that was & would remain a rarity.

The news from Panna is unusual... 5 is too low a number.

(01-27-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote: I saw you boosted my reputation due to a post on this thread I think, which one was it?

The "star" below everyone's posts. Actually if you touch/place mouse pointer over all those buttons, a pop-up will display its name. Reply

[Wolverine]

(01-27-2019, 12:58 PM)Rishi Wrote:

(01-27-2019, 12:30 PM)Wolverine Wrote: To every gaur hunted by tiger in India shot on camera we have probably 200 videos of cape bufallos hunted by lions filmed in Africa. So in order to film a tiger attacked by IWD probably we need 200 more years.

I don't believe 100% in dholes killing tigers, probably... 50/50, nor less than 50% and no more than 50%.

At the present rate of development of wildlife tourism in Indian & conservation successes, 20 years shuold be enough.
And dholes probably will never "dominate" (dancing around not counted) tigers 50% of times. That'd take 20+ packs, with experienced adults & aggressive leadership, a combination that was & would remain a rarity.

The news from Panna is unusual... 5 is too low a number.

(01-27-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote: I saw you boosted my reputation due to a post on this thread I think, which one was it?

The "star" below everyone's posts. Actually if you touch/place mouse pointer over all those buttons, a pop-up will display its name.

Ha ha ha. Buddy I am sayng that I believe only 50% that dholes has ever killed tigers, nothing about domination. In other words I am only a have believer of theory of killings....

About Panna, I don't know what to think, probably is not verified but there are details of the names of the veterinarian and the director. Reply

[Wolverine]

If you think this info deserve trust I could post it. I don't see any particular reason why should journalists create imaginable stories. Yes, only 5 animals, maybe few bites on the hind legs and run. Reply

[Sanju]

In Bandipur reserve of western ghats, Karnataka: there is a clan of 18 individuals. Watch "THE PACK" documentary. #6 post. Reply