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Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
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Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
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 @Rishi I have read the four links.
I see that the Kuno-Palpur issue has returned with full force, and both a new dwelling and a greater territorial expansion in Gujarat is desirable and both should be put into practice, as they are good instruments of conservation ... it is a much debated subject and the best points have already been well publicized here. A new question has arisen. At the moment the concern I have most is this: Understanding the exact size of the CDV and other protozoa found in the population, which may be at the heart of the issue. The answer is where no one is looking, at the infectologists and other professionals who are studying this parasitic situation. Is it necessary to know the temporal historicity of these viruses in Gir lions? Know when this monitoring exists? What viruses are endemic to this population? What is the death rate from these pathogens? If there have been previous outbreaks and how many have been verified? ... The viral prevalence of certain agents is natural to many populations, and this naturalness is a decisive factor in the immunity rate, and consequently in the quantitative prevalence of larger numbers of individuals surviving these outbreaks. In general, the further away the space between a viral outbreak and another, the higher the mortal rate. Many lions that were born between this time interval are not immunized, have never had contact with these pathogens. CDV has a multitude of "Cepas" and its toxicity is greater or less than according to their potentiality. What is the viral type of CDV that is appearing in Gir? What is the effect of its toxicity on these lions? It is always very difficult to determine the cause of death of a lion. Normally your deteriorated health is justified as being due to internal conflicts or injuries resulting from the struggle between predator and prey. In the case of CDV the seizure is its identifier, so knowing the actual amount of death from these diseases is very difficult to account for. Many use the Serengeti issue as an example, in order to impact everyone when they establish that 1000 lions have died as a result. As far as I understood, through previous readings, 1000 lions were contaminated. It is important to understand that the death of these lions as a result of the CDV virus is something to be measured and understood in the more general context. The impact of many of these viruses occurs on the fertility / fecundity rate, as well as on the survival rate of pups. This alarmist tone can cause prophylactic measures to be taken ahead of schedule. The concrete picture will be known when the results come out. The politicization of the subject has taken hold. Now, more than before, the population to be translocated to Kuno should be "totally free from certain types of viruses or not" Should also note which viruses are endemic to the Ranthambore tiger population - it can not be ignored that tigers and lions will sooner or later compete for territories. What many today are seeing as a window for the exit of lions to Kuno, others may see the issue of CDV and other parasites as a obstacle, plus an blocker. I think it is wiser to keep track of what is happening than to rush into position. Note: I used the "?" not for forum members to respond, but rather for questions that I believe are pertinent, as there does not existe be a good answer yet. 
Gujarat had been insisting on completion of over 30 studies recommended by the IUCN, but not mandatory, in it's guidelines for species translocation before releasing the lions.
“Everyone the committee, barring the representatives from Gujarat argued that some of these studies could take place while the relocation took place. But the Gujarat government didn’t budge,” said a member of the relocation committee that was set up on order of the SC. After the contempt petition filed by activist Ajay Dubey was discharged in March 2018, after the MoEF assured the court that it would expedite the project, Delhi-based advocate Gaurav Bansal had filed an RTI (exercise of the Right to Information Act) about the current status of the Reintroduction Project to Kuno. In its response, the Union Ministry for Environment and Forest said, "So far six meetings of the Expert Committee have been convened to discuss upon various issues pertaining to translocation of Asiatic lion from Gir Wildlife Sanctuary to Kuno-Palpur Wildlife Sanctuary, Madhya Pradesh. After intense discussions in various meetings a detailed Action Plan for the reintroduction of the Asiatic lions in Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary Madhya Pradesh have been prepared and is under process of finalization."  (10-05-2018, 10:14 AM)Rishi Wrote: Gujarat to set up two new parks for lions Yeah, but see where will be situated the proposed 2 new "national parks" (or rather large zoos) - again in Karhiavar peninsula... No word about northern Gujarat and especially about Rann of Kutch. The reason is clear - in Kathhiavar peninsula the lions are blocked from the north from highly urbanized territories, while if lions are introduced in Rann of Kutch they could easily escape and migrate to neibhourind states and countries - Rajastan and Pakistan, hence Gujarat to loose the monopoly of lions.... Rann of Kutch:  *This image is copyright of its original author With 2 words: sick brains....  I'm not against Barda sanctuary, Kuno is 10 times better, Barda is so so Ok. But Barda is inhabited by 4 000 people (according wiki), if Gujarat is not capable to relocate people from Gir itself how come it will relocate Barda? This guys again play "delay game", they wait until the noise and protests from the lion deaths pacify and than again will return to the old situation. Even all the Asiatic lions die they will not give lions to anybody else, because for them lions are not important, important is their "national pride". In order to trust them Gujarati FD should start real relocations from Barda - not in words, but in facts, until they don't say how many people and families are actually relocated nobody will believe to this endless dubbing continuing already two decades. (10-09-2018, 04:46 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Yeah, but see where will be situated the proposed 2 new "national parks" (or rather large zoos) - again in Karhiavar peninsula... No word about northern Gujarat and especially about Rann of Kutch. The reason is clear - in Kathhiavar peninsula the lions are blocked from the north from highly urbanized territories, while if lions are introduced in Rann of Kutch they could easily escape and migrate to neibhourind states and countries - Rajastan and Pakistan, hence Gujarat to loose the monopoly of lions.... The one in Narmada district is outside Kathiawar. The Rajpipla town is just outside Sulpaneshwar Wildlife Sanctuary.  *This image is copyright of its original author That's the reason I'm hopeful about that one not being another chainlinked Safari Park, but i don't have any specific details yet. Quote:This guys again play "delay game", they wait until the noise and protests from the lion deaths pacify and than again will return to the old situation. Even all the Asiatic lions die they will not give lions to anybody else, because for them lions are not important, important is their "national pride". Oh the 'delay game' is over! Gujarat chief minister Vijay Rupani, speaking at a press meet in Junagadh the day before yesterday, said, "They are receiving priority from the state government. There is no cause for worry as the situation in Gir is under control now and the lions are completely safe in the forest. The state government is sensitive and committed towards the conservation of lions in the state, and lions will not be relocated." The opposition in Assembly, had been propagating a conspiracy propaganda, “I feel that 23 lions were deliberately martyred to pave the way for translocation of some lions to MP which goes to polls in a few months. BJP wants to do something drastic, like bringing lions, in false hope of turning that election's results in their favour.” The ruling government of Gujarat will have to, atleast pretend to, resist the translocation by every hook & crook possible. That is, if they don't want their political careers to end. I for one is relieved that this farce is over. Let it hit the fan & atleast have an outcome, for better or for worse... (10-09-2018, 08:00 AM)Rishi Wrote: The opposition in Assembly, had been propagating a conspiracy propaganda, “I feel that 23 lions were deliberately martyred to pave the way for translocation of some lions to MP So, according conspiracy minds in G-t parlament the lions were kinda poisoned with bactereological weapons by Madhya Pradesh's agents...  Ingenious! I have always think that the best strategy to deal with those guys is MP to steal some lions under cover of night and introduce them in Kuno. But now afraid that in such a case Gujaratis will poison the animals... (no joke). Its like a bride not loyal to her husband and sleeping with other man. If you suspect your adversary in poisoning that mean that actualy you are capable of such a deed. A madhouse... Fanatic Aurangzeb during his young age was allways suspected that his brother Dara Shukoha want to kill him and finally he was the one who killed his Hindu brother...Its time government of Madhya Pradesh to start negotiations with foreign specialists (South Africa, Russia) for developing a technology of introduction into wild of captive lions and also start making own experiments. Gugaratis will finaly loose the game. People will soon travel to Mars and live on the Moon how come they cant teach captive lion cubs to hunt. Its matter of time and money. MP is not rich state but probably could invest a couple of million dollars in building of such a facility like Russians in Sochi. In such a case the animals should be guarded for poisoning.... For sure one day Asiatic lions will have a second home, not necessary in India.
Love and Kuno: Killer pathogens for Gir lions
October 6, 2018 Samir Shukla  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author With sad news of untimely deaths of at least 21 Gir lions due to pathogen raging across media, I am hit by such a huge barrage of TV debates and social media posts on the subject that I am forced to offer a much-needed counter-point to the issue for those who are willing to rise above politics and understand the science behind the wildlife conservation. Metaphorically speaking, while there seems to be a real pathogenic threat looming over Gir lions, I see another set of pathogens (that were a bit dormant lately) resurrecting that I find equally or more damaging. As always, in the forefront, we have political parties fighting over lions with customary we-did-that and you-didn’t-do-that “arguments”. They have become so irrational over time that they make absolutely no sense, but the fact that they are engaging in heated debate is a symptom of an underlying malaise that needs serious attention, as I feel that it is caused by two specific groups of pathogens working in tandem, ie lion lovers of Gujarat and Kuno brigade, a combination virulent enough to destroy a fine animal. I strongly feel that these pathogens need to be cognised for the damaging role they play. At this point, lion lovers are busy smirking in panel discussions with we-have-always-told-you-that-Gujarat-forest-department-is-a-failure looks and Kuno brigade is excitedly writing why-MODI-is-not-giving-lions-to-Kuno posts on social media as they both have suddenly found the atmosphere conducive to spread, so I feel an urgent need to explain how these two pathogens work together in harming the lion. Gir lion is a wonderful animal capable of evoking strong emotions in people, so it is difficult to keep emotions out of any discussion about this majestic cat; but the reality is, it is not some divine creature. Gir lion is just another big cat. Most of the glamour attached to it is because of its rarity, and now branding linked with Gujarat; but, as far as conservation efforts are concerned there is no real rocket science involved. Gujarat forest department has been conserving lions since a long time, and has acquired enough expertise to continue doing it in normal circumstances. The typical threats faced by the lion is poaching and ecological deterioration of habitat, and both are mitigated fairly well by Gujarat forest department. Gir lion is doing fine and increasing in numbers, so there is no real reason to worry about its protection inside the national park and sanctuary. It is only when it encounters extra-ordinary threats like a flood or epidemic, it will require enhanced management as it is being done today. If lion is doing fine, what is there to worry about? Here is where the first pathogen, Gir lion lover comes into play. The real problem with Gir lion is not conservation. It is hyper-conservation that Gujarat forest department is forced to indulge into due to presence of lion lovers that throng every street of Gujarat. As the long-distance love affair of these lion-maniacs is obsessive, they have turned lion into a divinity, and like all religious devotees, their “sentiments are hurt” by every little thing. With lion lovers constantly breathing down their necks, the central objective of lion conservation is shifted from lion protection to emotional management of the lovers. This has resulted into a very practical problem, ie, lions moving out of the protected areas and colonising revenue land. As lovers feel that if need be all Gujarat must be vacated for making room for Gir lions, forest department has no option but to facilitate lion’s spread across human territory. Today, we have a number of large prides settled outside the protected areas and living in human dominated landscapes. Though no sensible person would think that it is safe for lions and humans to share land, this phenomenon is celebrated by lovers and hence it has now acquired a sort of legitimacy that forest department is forced to accept. If we look at the list of real threats that can wipe out a small wild animal population, pathogens, especially those that jump into a new species that has no immunity, must be rated as the top most threat. Gir lion living on revenue land and hence coming in close contact of domesticated animals and humans is a sitting duck that just awaits a zoonotic pathogen bullet, but lovers, especially armed with science-agnosia that love causes, fail to recognise such a threat. While lovers make the job of forest department difficult, if not just unscientific but also near-impossible, there is another group, the Kuno brigade that makes it worse. Interestingly, Kuno brigade ride a horse of science. Their completely justifiable logic is that extreme and localise threat (such as a pathogen) can wipe out a small pollution confined in a small area and hence satellite populations must be created for increasing safety of the species. They sound reasonable and scientific, and very often are people who have worked in wildlife conservation for years. If they make a good scientific sense, how can they be a threat to Gir lion? The answer is in their strange instance on taking Gir lion OUT OF GUJARAT. The bitter truth with Kuno brigade is that they have shifted from science and into politics. They have only one demand and that is Out of Gujarat. Here is where science stops and agenda surfaces. If they are only interested in protecting lions by creating satellite population, it is entirely possible to provide an alternate venue in Gujarat itself. There are a number of lion-conducive locations within Gujarat that reasonably distant from Gir where all the eggs won’t remain in one basket. The real problem is the combination of lover and Kuno pathogen working in tandem. As Kuno pathogen pushes for lion translocation to Madhya Pradesh, the lover pathogen gets even more agitated. This, in turn, leads Kuno pathogen to intensify. This cycle of these pathogens feeding each other is now a problem far bigger than the Canine Distemper Virus or any other natural parasite problem that lions face. If Gir lion really needs anything, it is a bit less of the spotlight and far less of love. They are cats that will thrive if protected, because cats breed, well like cats and dogs. If need be, Gujarat itself has places to have satellite populations, and Gujarat forest department is working on couple of such locations. It is also not at all challenging to run a captive breeding program for Gir lions as, unlike animals that refuse to breed in captivity, Gir lions thrive in captivity to a level that they overflow zoos. So, if we can manage to keep lion lovers and Kuno brigade a bay, Gir lion is safe in the hands of Gujarat forest department that has done a wonderful job in conserving this majestic animal for the planet. Let them work in peace and Gir lion will be there for next generations to cherish.
Interesting article but Samir Shukla doesn't understand that beside danger of pan-disease exists even more serious danger of political conflicts, civil war and insurgency, periodicaly erupting in every single spot of the planet. Could you show me at least one place in the planet where in last 100 years there was no war. If Mr Shukla thinks that in Gujarat will eternally reign piece and harmony he is in illusion. The second home should be as far as possible from Kathiavar peninsula, not necessary "out of Gujarat", possibly in northern Gujarat, but for sure not in 80 miles from Gir.
The ancient wisdom says: "Do not put all your eggs in one basket." 
idk..this article is utter rubbish..doesn't make any sense..he's talking as if these so called lion lovers are literally bringing lions into revenue land,the lions go where they please..but how far can they go? surrounded by ever growing towns and villages..soon there will be no room in all of gujarat for them,their range needs to be extended,at some point they will be needed to repopulate some of their former ranges in areas like iran..no one is making this a bs political issue but you samir shulka and the rest of the sad gujarat government,kuh.. there is not even a decent excuse to not relocate the lions..how pathetic
(10-11-2018, 08:33 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: idk..this article is utter rubbish..doesn't make any sense..he's talking as if these so called lion lovers are literally bringing lions into revenue land,the lions go where they please..but how far can they go? surrounded by ever growing towns and villages..soon there will be no room in all of gujarat for them,their range needs to be extended,at some point they will be needed to repopulate some of their former ranges in areas like iran..no one is making this a bs political issue but you samir shulka and the rest of the sad gujarat government,kuh.. there is not even a decent excuse to not relocate the lions..how pathetic Erm.. That's not what he's saying. And that's definitely not what i endorse! He says the FD is being bound to manage the lions on revenue lands due to the "lovers" hailing the situation. If there was pressure on them to accommodate the lions within proper habitats, then they'd have already been translocated to other forests. I too would like to see lions in Thar desert & Iran's ranges. What i don't want to see, is lions in Kuno-Palpur. Here's why:
Right now the most practical solution of the lion problem are:
most blogs and talks about asiatic lions i've come across speak of moving lions to less human populated areas..seems like alot of people were pushing for it..though i agree with everything else you've said..but not gonna lie i was pretty stoked about wild lion/tiger interaction aswell..i think they should also get some terai blood in the mix along with central and southern indian,and i like the idea of introducing more prey choices for lions and tigers at some point like eland,kudu,nyala ect.
(10-11-2018, 01:26 PM)Rishi Wrote:(10-11-2018, 08:33 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: idk..this article is utter rubbish..doesn't make any sense..he's talking as if these so called lion lovers are literally bringing lions into revenue land,the lions go where they please..but how far can they go? surrounded by ever growing towns and villages..soon there will be no room in all of gujarat for them,their range needs to be extended,at some point they will be needed to repopulate some of their former ranges in areas like iran..no one is making this a bs political issue but you samir shulka and the rest of the sad gujarat government,kuh.. there is not even a decent excuse to not relocate the lions..how pathetic I"m categorically against creating a "tiger corridor" in the heart of the formal areal of the Indian lion, as well I'm against creating a "lion corridors" in the jaguar country... ; but now have no time for full answer and we start to repeat ourselves. In any way what could be said is despite the fact that Barda could not be a full scale second home for the lions for many reasons, the moving of lions to Barda sanctuary for sure is higly WELCOME, this is a good decision. But we need to see a real relocations of people from the sanctuary, even partial. It will be interesting to follow any news coming from Barda. 
What if madhya pradesh and rajasthan stop asking those gir lions from Gujarat and ask the same sub species from north western africa lions as they are of same haplotype or subspecies now based on 2017 research.
West African lion reintroduction to India
The west African, Barbary, European, Asiatic and most of the central African lions may all belong to same subspecies that is Northern Lion (Panthera leo leo). Instead of asking Gujarat for those lions, there may be an alternative. It is better if Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan govt ask north-west African countries to give lion. If they can ask other subspecies of cheetah from Namibia to species and whole grasslands saving and conservation, Why can't they ask the same subspecies of the lion in Africa to protect the Subspecies and Grassland ecosystems(in which this ecosystem is almost in extinct condition in India which collapsed after Lion and cheetah vanished and wolf endangered? People making use of them for industrialisation, agriculture and various purposes and tiger and leopard replacing that ecosystem with forest environment leading to extinction of Various grassland flora and fauna). Hence, at least any one of the grassland apex carnivores is needed to save the critically endangered grassland environment and also that particular species).  *This image is copyright of its original author Asiatic Lion (Panthera leo persica)  *This image is copyright of its original author West African Lion (Panthera leo senegalensis)
Prosecute those who scuttled SC judgment to protect Gir Lions
Justice KS Radhakrishnan talks to Mathrubhumi Online  *This image is copyright of its original author The sole objective of the SC judgment was to protect the endangered Gir Lions of Gujarat, concluded the court after detailed discussions with eminent wildlife biologists of India, apart from meticulously evaluating the scientific studies of the Wildlife Institute of India, said Justice KS Radhakrishnan. But it seems that the judgment was scuttled without caring for the lions. Those who scuttled it should be brought before law for contempt of court proceedings as well as subjected to prosecution, he said in an interview to Mathrubhumi Online. The judgment was delivered by a division bench of the court on April 15, 2013. At least two decades back Dehradun’s Wildlife Institute has been carrying detailed scientific studies to protect the Asiatic lions, now living only around Gir, had felt that the Gir lions need a second home, because in case an epidemic spreads, the entire lion community would be wiped out. If any such thing occurs in Gir, it would cause irrecoverable havoc. After studies, the wildlife institute came to the conclusion that Kuno forest in MP is an ideal location with the same habitat like Gir with similar terrain, grasslands, water availability and enough prey. The region was a former habitat of lions in India. The union forest ministry had approved the same while we considered a petition to translocate a few lions to Kuno and gradually implement the union ministry’s project so that a part of them can be shifted and protected. The Court had detailed discussions with wildlife biologists who were present in the court. We bestowed our anxious considerations to protect a species but the judgment was scuttled said the Justice. From the very beginning, the Gujarat Government was objecting to the second home in Kuno. They said the lions were well protected but the Court, on the basis of scientific studies, approved the project as fully supported by the Union Government,\ which was directed to implement the judgment within six months from the date of pronouncing the order. A committee was formed by the union government to implement it. At first, at least 10 lions were to be taken to Kuno and gradually in a time bound project more lions would be shifted. But nothing happened, the committee was silenced. It met only a few times in last few years and In 2015, the then Forest Minister Prakash Javadekar told the Parliament that the implementation will take some more time though the Court had fixed six months. That sounded the death knell of the committee. Justice Radhakrishnan opined that the union government should find out who were all responsible to scuttle the judgment. They have to be prosecuted prosecuted for violating the judgment of the court. The judgment was delivered imbibing the spirit of the Wildlife Protection Act, Biological Diversity Act and numerous proceedings taken by the Union Ministry of Forests to protect the endangered species. But it was given scant respect, observed Justice Radhakrishnan. Now the scenario is alarming as 23 lions are dead due to viral infection. But some unofficial sources claimed the toll to be as high as at 60! Though the Gujarat government lied that death was due to infightings among the lions, until the Virology Institute of Pune has said that viral infection was the cause of deaths. Now a bench of the SC headed by Justice Madan Lokur is aware of the serious situation of non-implementing a well-considered judgment of 2013. (11-14-2018, 02:24 PM)Rishi Wrote: Justice Radhakrishnan opined that the union government should find out who were all responsible to scuttle the judgment. They have to be prosecuted prosecuted for violating the judgment of the court.  Despite being the largest democracy obviously in India there are problems with rule of law. Its hard to explain why federal government is turning a blind eye on the judgment of the Indian Supreme Court already 5 years. In United States for example such a thing as non-implementation of Supreme Court order will be unthinkable. |
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