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The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear
The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear
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The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear
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Does anyone here have access to Big Bonns? He is a bear enthusiast who has accumulated quite a bit of information.
The brown bear (Ursus arctos):
First of all, here is the pages from Gerard Wood (1978) in his exceptional book "Animal facts and feats":  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Please, read it slowly, because it have a huge load of data that most be apreciated in each paragraph. A true treasure for bear-lovers. .<br />
2. Wood states that the average brown bear is larger than the average polar bear, probably at the level of species just like the case of the tiger and the lion. However the problem here is that we don't know were he get the data, and although he is a very reliable person, some posters can argue (and with reason) about the reliability of those figures.<br />
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Now, about the body mass, there are several sources in the web and books, but from my point of view, two are the best in showing the full variation in weight of this species, at least in America.<br />
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1. Blanchard (1980), on the size of the Grizzly population:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ejFHuHQ.png) *This image is copyright of its original author Interestingly, the heaviest brown bear recorded by scientists is of 611 kg, according with this source. This is the heaviest brown bear that I have saw in all scientific literature. Now, check this support data:  *This image is copyright of its original author This is the original source of this record, and here we can clearly see that this 611 kg figure came from a bear weighed in the fall, which is a date when bears are very fat before the winter. The heaviest figure in spring is of 539.8 kg (or 540 kg, in round numbers, if you like). There is a significant reduction of fat, and this most be taken in count through comparisons 2. Schwartz et al. (2003; in Feldhamer et al. 2003), on his complete and authoritative chapter about the brown bear:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here, we can see that the variation in size of this bear is similar form to that of the tiger and jaguar. The largest bears are more than twice the size of the smaller ones. Take in count that here there is no data on the size of the bears of Eurasia, although it is said that those are smaller in the center of Asia and average to large (up to 320 kg, or 480 kg according with Wood (1978)) in Europe and Siberia. Finally, the best table that I have found on the bears of the Russian Far East, from the late Kucherenko (2003):  *This image is copyright of its original author The Siberian Tiger Project presented slightly different average figures (270 kg for males and 145 kg for females), but they don't present ranges nor sample size. I will try to get this data soon (I hope), and for those that could think that those figures are estimations, here you can see Linda, Bart and Dale (I think) with a large bear been weighed in Sikhote-Alin.  *This image is copyright of its original author Finally, the Kamchatka bears are reported to be as large as the largest Kodiak bears, and the skulls seems to support that. However, at this day, I have not saw a single reliable weight to support this claim, just the same reports of bears of 500-700 kg from the same sources of the tigers of 300-350 kg, which is the old Russian literature.
Record brown bear of Guinness:
Remember the 750 kg bear reported as the heaviest brown bear in all history. Well, I found the original source and it seems very reliable to me. Take a read, please:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Check that it say "actually weighed", which is synonymous of "Reliable" in my dictionary. Also, it is 751, not 750, but 1 kg seems not relevant in the paper. So, from my part and in my opinion, this weight seems more reliable that the figure of 1,002 kg for the polar bear, despite the differences of the date. However, both most be exceptional cases. What do you think guys? 
I think that Gerard Wood is wrong when he says that on average, the brown bear is larger than the average polar bear. There is such a huge size variation within various populations of brown bears. I do believe, however, that there is very little average size difference between the coastal brownies and the polar bears; especially the kodiaks. I do not find it difficult to believe in the 1,655 pound brown bear, nor the 2,209 pound polar bear. I have noticed that the largest polar bears are in the wild while brown bears can be larger in captivity, if well fed, than in the wild.
Thank you for the great information GuateGojira. I just want to add; as I have been purchasing one or two books per month ( each payday ) my next book will be Gerard Wood's 1978 - "Animal Facts and Feats." 
The largest population of polar bears in the Foxe Basin average around 590kg for males, quite a bit bigger than any brown bear population.
(10-12-2014, 11:10 PM)'brotherbear' Wrote: I think that Gerard Wood is wrong when he says that on average, the brown bear is larger than the average polar bear. There is such a huge size variation within various populations of brown bears. I do believe, however, that there is very little average size difference between the coastal brownies and the polar bears; especially the kodiaks. I do not find it difficult to believe in the 1,655 pound brown bear, nor the 2,209 pound polar bear. I have noticed that the largest polar bears are in the wild while brown bears can be larger in captivity, if well fed, than in the wild.Good news for you and for all posters here. Now there is the digital-free version of the book "Animal Facts and Feats" of 1978 AND 1982! Yes, I will put the links soon, as the pages permit only to borrow one person at the time. So, you will only need to copy the pages if you want to read it. Now, if you prefer the printed version (like my case, that I bought the edition of 1978), there are some economic versions in Amazon.com, at leats for the edition of 1973 (1rst.) and 1978 (2nd.). (10-13-2014, 07:12 AM)'Richardrli' Wrote: The largest population of polar bears in the Foxe Basin average around 590kg for males, quite a bit bigger than any brown bear population.Great data Richard. Could you put the document or link please? This data surely put an end to the debate, as I think there is no other land carnivore that can reach such an average figure. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
[b]I am interested in this too. The Kodiak brown bears are simply a single population of brown bears, therefore it is fair to compare them with a single population of polar bears. We have learned here that the polar bear in general averages roughly 383 kg ( 850 to 900 pounds ) and measures roughly 2.36 m long ( 7 ft 9 in ) and stands roughly 1.21 m high at the shoulders ( 48 inches ).
The Foxe Basin polar bear averages roughly 590 kg ( 1300.7 pounds ). I am interested in his height and length as well. Also, what are the average weight and measurements of a mature male Kodiak bear? Also, a mature male Alaskan brown bear?
It appears that the Foxe Basin polar bears feed heavily on walrus. For both the polar bears and the related brown bears, diet and size are tightly connected -
http://polarbearscience.com/2014/02/12/f...opulation/
Wow Brotherbear, that blog is not just very interesting, but it seems also very "polemic". The Dr that wrote it is against the "popular" knowledge that polar bears are been affected by global warming. I think that we need to read more of this blog, some conclusions are interesting and we need to take in count them.
Also, I read something about the bear evolution and this will help us very much, specially in the definition of "species", proving again that a time of 600,000 to 500,000 years is more than enough to split two different species, and this will be the case of polar-brown bears and cave-modern lions. On the bear size issue, I will put the pages of Gerard Wood's book, this time from 1982 (3rd. and last edition), there are some new records, but other old ones has been omitted. It is good to have the two versions.
Much appreciated Guate. I do, by the way, strongly believe in climate change caused by our modern civilization in various ways. But, I'm happy that there may possibly be some polar bear populations ( hopefully ) not so badly affected; for the present anyway. I am interested in the evolution of these animals. I will also add that I have found very little info on Pleistocene brown bears. As to the works of Gerard Wood, I'm looking forward to learning more. I don't own a printer, but I do plan on ordering the books soon. Again, thank you.
My hypothesis on why Brown bears do better in Captivity compared to Polar bears has to do with available diet,
I would assume that it would be very costly for a zoo or sanctuary to keep fresh blubber and meat for a Polar bear as well as being able to find the right type of animal's that polar bears actually prey on. I doubt that many zoos carry beluga and Walrus meat and blubber, while Brown bears are omnivores and will do well on a diet of many different types of meat and fruits and veggies. Like Bengals who were kept in captivity and malnourished until recently in India, I think that they may have been able to obtain larger sizes if they were actually given proper nutrient rich diets and enough fresh meat which seems to be occurring more frequently in India now a days. Even that captive bengal that was caught as a wild cub looks to be plenty hefty and large while he was captive.  (10-12-2014, 11:01 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: I have question, Is Kodiak and Coastal brown bears are different ? If yes which one is larger ? The Coastal Brown Bears are just the overgrown Grizzly bears, and they are genetically identical to the Inland Grizzly Bears, just grow larger than their Inland cousins with the rich diet. Whereas the Kodiak Bears descended from an earlier group of Brown Bear that migrated from Kamchatka. The Grizzly Bears are closely related to the Amur/Manchurian Brown Bears, and the Kodiak Bears are closely related to the Kamchatkan Brown Bears. (10-13-2014, 09:54 PM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:Wow, that is very interesting. Could you put the source please?(10-12-2014, 11:01 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: I have question, Is Kodiak and Coastal brown bears are different ? If yes which one is larger ? It seems that like tigers, brown bears also lived several waves of "extinctions" and "reintroductions" in they evolutive history. Great data! |
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