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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (04-13-2018, 10:16 PM)qstxyz Wrote:Thank you for answer @qstxyz(04-13-2018, 10:05 PM)Rishi Wrote:(04-13-2018, 08:04 PM)qstxyz Wrote:(04-13-2018, 12:47 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @qstxyz what is situation with tigers in Vietnam now? Any developments? So, before decades situation with tiger protection was comperatively similar in all countries, now the "tiger countries" seems to have split on 2 distinct groups - situation in India, Russia and Nepal is going relatively well, situation in countries of South East Asia seems to be disastrous. Especially disastrous is situation in Indonesia, a 240 million beautiful island country with probably largest variety of wild animal species in the planet - starting with orangutans and Comodo dragons and finishing with tigers and rhinos.I haven't heard even one single good record for effective wildlife protection in Indonesia in any time at any place for any wild animal specie. All wild animal species there seems to be declining in numbers or to be in desperate situation.... and there is no even one wild animal specie to got out of misery. The most prominent example is the Sumatran rhino who could be assumed as dead. Actually its not dead but the last few dozens of rhinos stop to reproduse so it could be said that this rhino specie is in the stage of reproductive dead. If Sumatran rhino disapears and thats 90% certain that will be the first large land mammal specie disapeared from the planet since last Ice Age 10 thousand years ago.  (04-14-2018, 07:09 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Thank you for answer @qstxyz Actually local forest dwellers, being usually uneducated, often don't quite comprehend what they're doing! Situation is not better in India either. Amongst the tribals communities, there still are mass-hunts. This was originally a yearly ritual of the tribals, but now they come in cars even from far-off towns just to have fun... Joint Forest Management policy here usually has them go unpunished! This was filmed by a worker from an NGO, Suvrajyoti Chatterjee, i think. Last month, a tiger had wandered into Western Bengal from neighbouring province, after a hundred years absence in that region! FD was trying to track & tranq it prior to the madness, but failed. I was following the developments... Engagement of most of their manpower in that, led to little effort being made to stop/check the killing. Later on, yesterday, the 10-year-old male was injured by the mob of 10000 & was found dead later on. Autopsy found out that the 220kg tiger suffered a broken skull leading to haemorrhage in its brain.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author I am really depressed right now....... 
PANTHERA TIGRIS ALTAICA - 4 - ON THE EFFECTS OF TOUGH CONDITIONS AND POACHERS (continuation)
4a - Poaching The previous post in the series on Amur tigers had a report about poachers arrested in late January 2018 not too far from Chabarowsk. I wrote they had killed one Amur tiger. I was wrong. In another article on the same incident, Russian officers concluded that four Amur tigers had been killed. They also found 870 paws of brown bears (...). In another region, 27 bear paws were discovered: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-china-bear-paws-tiger-endangered-animal-parts-smuggling/29004512.html In the article, you'll find 'two minibuses and a SUV', 'crossing a frozen lake' and 'other protected animals'. Imagine the scale of the operation. The organisation behind it. Poaching is big business. All in all, 6 Amur tigers and over 200 brown bears were lost in January, February and March of this year. The Russian Far East is a large place. If they want to create a safe haven for wildlife in eastern Manchuria and the Russian Far East, the Chinese and the Russians need to take poaching serious and cooperate. In order to fight local poachers, you need a decent budget, enough staff and an adequate legal framework. Professionals, however, have organisation. They're well-armed and dangerous. What is needed, therefore, is a professional response: rapid intervention teams, modern equipment and an attitude matching that of the opponent. Over the top? Losing many thousands of wild and often rare animals every year in a country headed by a man very interested in conservation is. The Russians are doing well, but it is important to understand that more Amur tigers will attract more professional poachers. In conservation, political will, research, education and an adequate legal framework are important. But so are gatekeepers. And the will to solve serious problems quickly. Based on the Fomenko-interview (see the previous post in this series), rangers in Russia face serious problems. If these are not solved and rangers lose motivation, tigers could disappear in less than a decade. For proof, visit southeast Asia. Empty forests. 
Male Siberian Tiger “Altai”
 *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.rt.com/news/tiger-attack-germany-zoo-557/ Autopsy of the tiger An interdisciplinary team, consisting of a veterinarian pathologist, a forensic pathologist and autopsy technicians, performed an autopsy on the tiger. The adult male tiger measured 240 cm from nose to tail root. The tail had an additional length of 96.5 cm. Its canine teeth were 3.5 cm (older fracture of right lower canine) to 7 cm long.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-015-1216-0 Canine teeth （The exposed part is more than 8cm.）  *This image is copyright of its original author skull（Don't know the size）  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (04-18-2018, 06:10 PM)Betty Wrote: Male Siberian Tiger “Altai” I think the upper canines from the gum line for the skull should be in-between 6.5 - 7 cm.  (04-18-2018, 06:10 PM)Betty Wrote: Male Siberian Tiger “Altai”Incredible huge fangs
BETTY
Good find. Your post might have an unexpected effect. Before continuing, I want to offer my sympathy to the relatives of the 43-year old keeper of the Cologne zoo. Although she had plenty of experience, she apparently made a mistake and paid the ultimate price. 1 - THE TIGER Male Amur tiger 'Altai' was 4 years of age when he was shot by zoo director Theo Pagel after he had killed the zoo keeper. The tiger had been moved to Cologne in April 2011 to meet 'Hanya', a tigress from a French facility. The meeting had an effect, as 'Hanya' gave birth to 3 cubs. 2 - AUTOPSY REPORT An interdisciplinary team, consisting of a veterinarian pathologist, a forensic pathologist and autopsy technicians, performed an autopsy on tiger 'Altai'. The tiger measured 240 cm. from nose to tail root. The tail measured 96,5 cm. The length of the canines ranged between 35 and 70 mm. The total length of the tiger was 336,5 cm. (11 feet and about half an inch), that is. Very long, even for a male Amur tiger. The question is in what way he was measured. Dr. P. van Bree of the former Zoological Museum of Amsterdam told me he measured big cats in a straight line ('between pegs'). Dr. D. Morike of the Staatliches Museum fur Naturkunde Stuttgart also told me that big cats should be measured in that way. As tiger 'Altai' was measured by, or in the presence of, a veterinarian pathologist and a forensic pathologist, I assume that the tiger was measured in the correct way: in a straight line. This means that the tiger was almost as long as the record tiger shot in northern India in the late sixties of the previous century. That male, at 11.1 in total length measured in a straight line and 11.7 'over curves', is the longest I know of. 3 - SKULL Good photographs of big cat skulls are few and far between. Betty's post has three, of which two will be used in this post. Both photographs have scales. Here they are again (sorry about the notes):  *This image is copyright of its original author It is about the scale used in the two photographs. It's the same scale, I think. The length of the longest wing is 10 cm. The short wing is 5 cm. I'll start with the first photograph. 3a - Photograph 1 This photograph shows the canines and the rostrum. The scales enables a few measurements. I measured the width of the rostrum and the length of the left upper canine (from the tip to the insertion). How did I get to a measurement in both cases? I first printed the photograph and measured the length of the long side of the scale. We know that the long wing has a length of 10 cm. In the print, the long wing isn't 10, but 5,20 cm. (520 to make things easy). The width of the rostrum (referring to the print) is 6,50 cm. (650). In order to find the real width of the rostrum, we have to divide 650 by 520, knowing that 520 is 10,00 cm. The result is 1,25. This means that the rostrum is about 125,00 mm. Never saw a rostrum that wide. The length of the left upper canine (measured in a straight line from the tip to the insertion) is 79,80 mm. Also the longest I saw. 3b - Photograph 2 Another excellent photograph showing the skull with a scale. It's the same scale used in the first photograph. The scale, however, poses a problem. We know the long wing is exactly 10 cm., but what about the width of the short part that is added? To keep it short: the scale has a total length of 12,50 cm. As for the printed photograph. On the print, the length of the scale is 275 units (275 in the photograph). The total length of the skull is 950 units. When we divide 950 by 275, the result is 3,4545. In order to get to the real length of the skull, we have to multiply 3,4545 with 12,50. The result is 431,818 mm. for greatest total skull length. Unheard of. The width at the arches (referring to the print I made) is 625 units (625). If we divide 625 by 275 (the length of the scale), the result is 2,2727. In order to get to the real length, we have to multiply 2,2727 with 12,50. The result is 284,09 mm. Very wide, but not a record. The reason is that the tiger was a young adult. I also had another go at the width of the rostrum. This time, the result was 122,72 mm. 3c - To conclude The scale in the two photographs is of crucial importance. If it would have been 10 cm., the skull would have been slightly below average for males of Panthera tigris altaica. If the scale, however, really is 12,50 cm., the results are staggering. It's the largest tiger skull by quite a margin. 4 - ALL As some of you know, I measured many big cat skulls. The longest tiger skull was a bit below 380,00 mm. in greatest total length. There is (referring to Christiansen) some evidence of skulls exceeding 16 inches in greatest total length, but 'some evidence' is very different from a confirmed measurement. The tiger featuring in this post was 240 cm. in head and body length and had a tail of 96,5 cm., which results in a total length of 336,5 cm. (...). Remarkable, if we consider that the tiger still was a young adult when he was shot. If I'm right, the skull of this male was 431,18 mm. in greatest total length. With a width of 284,09 mm. and a rostrum width of 122,72 mm., the skull is way larger than all other skulls. Betty. If you give me the coordinates (full text, source, email etc), I will contact one of the writers and, if possible, go to Cologne myself in order to measure the skull. By train, it only is a few hours. I assume I made a mistake somewhere. If you see errors, let me know. If I avoided them, this most probably is the largest tiger skull ever. By a margin. As to the possibility of a tiger skull exceeding 16 inches in greatest total length. There are quite a few tigers exceeding 600 pounds in captivity. Some of them have very large skulls. The great majority will never be measured. In Nepal and some parts of India, wild male tigers also exceed 600 pounds at times. Tables with measurements of tiger skulls very often are reproductions of old information. I do not doubt that large skulls can exceed 16 inches in greatest total length. Here's the second photograph again: if I'm right (depends on the scale at the bottom left), this skull has a greatest total length of about 430,00 mm., a zygomatic width of 284 mm. and a rostrum width exceeding 122 mm.:  *This image is copyright of its original author
@peter of course if the protection on Amur tigers is lifted up all tigers will be exterminated by poachers for a matter of few years. No doubt. In same time tropical tigers have do deal both with poaching and human pressure, Amur ones have to deal only with poaching. Beside the fact as you mentioned inbreeding problems, but this inbreeding problems are going to start ineviatably also with tropical tigers due to ever increasing fragmentation of their habitats and small subpopulations.
Modern Russia and Sovet era have both some advantages and disadvantages concerning Amur tiger protection. ADVANTAGES OF USSR TO MODERN RUSSIA IN THE FIELD OF TIGER PROTECTION 1. During Soviet era Soviet-Chinese relations were quite bad, Soviet-Chinese border extreemly militarised and almost inprenetable for poachers. Russians poachers in this time didn't have opportunity to smuggle and sell tiger products to Chinese traditional "medicine" - the largest criminal organisation in the planet altogether with Sicilian Mafia and Columbian drug cartels, based entirely on ignorance and superstition. 2. USSR was notorious with the lakh of roads and defficit of personal cars, Soviet people travelled mainly with trains and airplanes, that's why forrests of Ussuriland had very few roads and were vastly annuproachable for motorised poaching. ADVANTAGES OF MODERN RUSSIA TO USSR IN THE FIELD OF TIGER PROTECTION 1. Now as was already mentioned due to sharp demographic crisis Russia is aging and depopulating and in Ussuriland live with 1/8 less people than in 1990, hundreds and hundreds of villages in Ussuriland are partially or compleetly abandoned or left only with old people to live there because young people are migrating to big cities, nobody want to work on land, youngsters don't want to live on countryside, they want luxury and modernity. This a Russian psyhological phenomenon and quite different from the behavior of many people in North America who want to escape from the big cities to the countryside. Paradoxicaly situation in Ussuriland is following: from one side you have less people living permanently in the forest comparing with late Soviet era, but in same time there are much more roads, much more private cars and trucks enetering the forest. The mining and logging places have only temporary residents. In Soviet era some forest veterans said that they could walked for a months in Ussuri forest without seeng even one human, now even in the most remote parts of the forest you can see noisy yongsters from neighboring big cities on Japaneese trucks with guns shooting all game they see (hopefully not tigers). 2. Now Amur tigers have the protection of the most powerfull man in the country - the President himself. During late Soviet era tigers have protection of the government, so called "zapovedniks" (resrves) were like military zones and they were quite efficient, in same time there was no any particular strong man on the top showing particular interes in the tiger protection. Maybe an Amur tiger numbers - around 500 sounds unsufficient, but Northern tigers has never been numerous and cant be numerous because the productivity of Northern forest is too low in comparison with tropical ecosystems and particurlary India where every square meter of wild nature is teaming with life.
WOLVERINE
Another post with good information. Appreciated. As to the future of the Amur tiger. I have no doubt whatsoever about the goals set in the Amur tiger department. I also have no doubts about the quality and attitude of the researchers and rangers. The Amur tiger has the best chance of all subspecies. The problem is professional poachers. Every undetected raid will result in hundreds of dead animals, including Amur tigers. They don't care, that is. The Russians have the means to send a very clear message. Same for the Chinese.
TIGER 'ALTAI' FROM THE KOLN ZOO
The accident in the Koln zoo happened in August 2012. This post has a few videos I found. a - Introduction The tiger came from the UK in April 2011. This videos were shot shortly after he arrived. At that time, he was about 3 years of age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRwrqw7-Qlg (03:21) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkje-9ZjGP8 (00:53) b - Tigress 'Hanya' In the articles I read after the accident, tiger 'Altai' is described as 'large' or 'very large'. He was estimated at 250-280 kg. This would fit the measurements mentioned in the previous post. Tigress 'Hanya' came from a French facility. She was about 6 when they met. The video shows she was a large tigress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq3wfuzjiVk (03:08). c - The accidents in Koln and Munster When the director of the Koln zoo was informed about the accident, he shot the tiger from an elevated position. After the press had been informed, he was interviewed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNXl9bMjrh8 (01:30) About a year later, in Munster (not that far away), another keeper was killed by a male Amur tiger. Tiger 'Rasputin', born in Leipzig in 2003, killed him in the same way as the keeper in Koln zoo had been killed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgm6apfQuNo (01:55) d - The size of Amur tiger 'Altai' Although photographs and videos provide some information, it's often very difficult to get to a good estimate. What we have, strongly suggest that adult male Amur tigers top the lists in nearly all departments. As good information is still lacking, some of our members decided to give it a try. Based on the tables they posted, I'd say that 210-220 kg. would be pretty close for an average adult male. However. Captive Amur tigers, in contrast to their wild relatives, show a lot of individual variation. Some individuals, like the often discussed male in Duisburg measured by Dr. Gewalt or the male in Odense (recent), approach or even exceed 300 kg. in their prime. According to those who saw him, tiger 'Altai' was larger than average. Although large, he wasn't exceptional. If he was 240 cm. in head and body and 336,5 cm. in total length and really had a skull well exceeding 16 inches in greatest total length, one wonders about the size of exceptional individuals.
16 - 17 inches for the upper spectrum for the modern tigers, maybe 18 - 19 inches for the Pleistocene tigers.
BTW, if the broadest rostrum for the Pleistocene lions was something like 138 mm, then it should be expected that the Pleistocene tigers should score even higher, something like 150 mm? (04-19-2018, 06:10 AM)peter Wrote: BETTY This is the source.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The specifications of the Scale ruler are the same.  *This image is copyright of its original author
BETTY
- Thanks again for the info. The article is interesting. I found another some years ago. In that one, the death of the director of a private facility in France was discussed. He too was killed with a neck bite. The tigress was a large (over 200 kg. or 441 pounds) animal he knew well. - As to the skull and the scale in the photograph. As we agree on the scale, the conclusion I got to was confirmed: the skull of the 4-year old captive male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo shot in August 2012 has a greatest total length of about 430 mm., a rostrum width of at least 122 mm. and a zygomatic width of about 284,00 mm. It's unique in that it is the largest known skull of a male Amur tiger. By a margin, I should add. The photograph with the scale can be considered as proof. Many thanks on behalf of all interested in big cat skulls! - Could you enlarge the scans in the previous post? On my screen, they are a bit small. - I will contact one of the writers in order to to measure the skull. If it's still there and they offer me the opportunity to measure and photograph the skull, we (WildFact) most definitely will publish a paper. (04-20-2018, 07:10 AM)peter Wrote: BETTY  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Male Siberian Tiger “Altai”  *This image is copyright of its original author
MALE AMUR TIGER 'RASPUTIN' FROM MUNSTER ZOO
About a year after the poor woman of the Koln zoo had been killed by male Amur tiger 'Altai' in August 2012, there was another accident in a zoo not that far away from Koln (Germany). Again a very experienced keeper was involved. The unfortunate 56-year old man was killed by male Amur tiger 'Rasputin' (see the article posted by Betty). Here's a close-up of 10-year old 'Raputin' of the Munster zoo. This male was born in the famous Leipzig zoo in 2003:  *This image is copyright of its original author
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