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Spalea · 12-14-2017, 01:35 PM

@Wolverine :

About #358: Lion king is walking as you say. Even if the final place to relax looks nothing like royalty ! I joke...

But very interesting video by comparing with some big "royal" tiger walking. We see a common attitude, common body language. I just mention that, nothing about their respective morphologies.

Rishi · 12-14-2017, 06:24 PM

*This image is copyright of its original author

chaos · 12-14-2017, 07:41 PM

(12-14-2017, 06:24 PM)Rishi Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Excellent array of photos. Big, strong, healthy looking cats. My opinion on the Asiatic lion as a feeble looking inferior inbreed, is changing. Some outstanding pics. Thanks for posting them

Rishi · 12-14-2017, 10:13 PM

@chaos You (& many others) shouldn't have had such opinion in the first place.
It is based on a flawed view cooked up by who-knows-who, circulating in the internet that the numbers fell as low as a dozen, which is preposterously baseless!!!

Let me present an excerpt from 2015 lion census report gujenvis.nic.in/pdf/lion-population-estimation-report:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Considering the fact that they first started recieving protection only from the last decade of 19th Century, no possible conservation scenario could have pulled their numbers back up, from that to 285 (even if that value is probably highly exaggerated, but say, 150-200 by considering the handfull of salt) by 1936. Just not enough time!

The population likely never fell below 100, definitely not below 50.

Actually the first proper census was done in 1968, after Gir was declared a Wildlife Sanctuary in 1965.

So, some amount of inbreeding has definitely happened, but not as alarming as uninformed people make it out to be...
The specimens in the zoos are definitely below par though, (Good info found by @Betty here #182), because they are almost invariably made up of orphans, rejected or abandoned by their mothers.
This is how we obtain them.

chaos · 12-15-2017, 04:40 AM

(12-14-2017, 10:13 PM)Rishi Wrote: @chaos You (& many others) shouldn't have had such opinion in the first place.
It is based on a flawed view cooked up by who-knows-who, circulating in the internet that the numbers fell as low as a dozen, which is preposterously baseless...

Let me present an excerpt from 2015 lion census report gujenvis.nic.in/pdf/lion-population-estimation-report:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Considering that they first started recieving protection from the last decade of 19th Century, no possible conservation scenario could have pulled the numbers back up from there, to 285 (even if that value is probably highly exaggerated) by 1936.

The population most likely never fell below 100.

Actually the first proper census was done in 1968, after Gir was declared a Wildlife Sanctuary in 1965.

So, some amount of inbreeding has definitely happened, but not as alarming as uninformed people make it out to be...
The specimens in the zoos are definitely below par though. Good info found by @Betty here #182. Because they are almost invariably made up of orphans, rejected or abandoned by their mothers.
This is how we obtain them.

Glad to see the steady increase in numbers. The gene pool is now more diverse, resulting in healthier lions. Yes, I was of the belief the numbers were at one time a dozen or so. That info was commonly circulated. Thanks for the clarification Rishi.

Rishi · 01-15-2018, 10:19 PM

Another volley of males & females... (I think by now this thread has the best collection of Asiatic lion images on the whole internet!)

*This image is copyright of its original author

parvez · 01-15-2018, 10:58 PM

@Rishi can you figure out the cause of dullness or not charging humans on foot behavior of Asiatic or Indian lions? It is somewhat mysterious I can give light to tiger questions not lions lol.

Wolverine · 01-16-2018, 01:45 AM

(01-15-2018, 10:58 PM)parvez Wrote: @Rishi can you figure out the cause of dullness or not charging humans on foot behavior of Asiatic or Indian lions? It is somewhat mysterious I can give light to tiger questions not lions lol.

I am not Rishi of course but will try to give you my opinion on this very important question.
India has always been called by foreigners "the Land of the Wonders" and continue to be till now in some degree. I have personally seen two huge male Gir lions passing only 8-10 meters from me when I walked alone in the forest, they not only didn't show any interest towards me but even didn't turn their eyes towards as I didn't even exist at all. Of course I was so frightened that climbed on a tree but there was no need of it. If we search more rational explanation of that behaviour, probably could say that this is adaptation of Indian lions to habitat crowded of people, since several decades Indian lions are surrounded by human crowds (the dencity of human population is ten times higher than in Africa) and they somehow realised that they should not touch the people otherwise that is gonna be a death penalty for them. Indian lions become somehow smarter and wiser and turned to a kind of semi-urbanistic animals as black bears and coyotes in North America who are walking on the streets of the cities. That is very promising for their future conservation. In same time we have to admit that recently there were a several cases of man-eating among Indian lions true as a rule this are exceptional cases.
Probably Rishi could add add something on this topic.
@parvez if its not a secret from what Indian state are you from?

parvez · 01-16-2018, 09:40 AM

@Wolverine Thanks for trying to explain the mysteriousness. That seems to be reasonable explanation. These many days I thought inbreeding was the cause for this. But the data shown by rishi clearly indicates there was no severe inbreeding. That's why I asked the question. Also imagine if these Indian lions are in perfect health condition and relocated to other place where tigers are present then these prides would get involved in epic battles with Bengal tiger. These naturally occurring battles will be a sight to see. Btw I am from andhra Pradesh state where there are no Asiatic lions.

parvez · 01-16-2018, 10:17 AM

Genetic variation in Asiatic lions and Indian tigers.
Shankaranarayanan P, et al. Electrophoresis. 1997.
Show full citation

Abstract
Previous reports have suggested that Asiatic lions and tigers are highly inbred and exhibit very low levels of genetic variation. Our analyses on these species have shown much higher degrees of polymorphism than reported. Randomly amplified polymorphic DNA (RAPD) analysis of 38 Asiatic lions, which exist as a single population in the Gir Forest Sanctuary in India, shows an average heterozygosity of 25.82% with four primers. Sperm motility studies by our colleagues corroborate this data. In Indian tigers, microsatellite analysis of five CA repeat loci and multilocus fingerprinting using Bkm 2(8) probe on a population of 22 individuals revealed a heterozygosity of 22.65%. Microsatellite analysis of loci Fca 77 and Fca 126 revealed polymorphism amongst the Asiatic x African lion hybrids, which has enabled us to use these as markers to discriminate the pure Asiatic lions from the hybrids. A similar analysis was used to identify hybrids of Indian and Siberian tigers through polymerase chain reaction (PCR) amplification of hair samples. To ascertain the variation which existed before the population bottleneck at the turn of the present century, microsatellite analysis was performed on 50- to 125-year-old skin samples from museum specimens. Our results show similar levels of genetic variability as in the present population (21.01%). This suggests that low genetic variability may be the characteristic feature of these species and not the result of intensive inbreeding. DNA fingerprinting studies of Asiatic lions and tigers have helped in identifying individuals with high genetic variability which can be used for conservation breeding programs.
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9378147&grqid=1ZRTQLLq&hl=en-IN

Rishi · 01-17-2018, 09:23 AM

(01-15-2018, 10:58 PM)parvez Wrote: @Rishi can you figure out the cause of dullness or not charging humans on foot behavior of Asiatic or Indian lions? It is somewhat mysterious I can give light to tiger questions not lions lol.

Picture tells a thousand words, so i'm gonna use some videos for even better efficiency... Also, i'll have to divide the answer to inside & outside protected area.

In Gir & other sound PAs; almost each pride/coalition is followed & monitored by trackers 24*7. That's why you kinda always see them in the background.
The lions are just too accustomed to their continuous presence & simply ignore them most of the time.

Two more things, the trackers are trained to keep their distance...

..& stand their ground in case the lions feel they're little to close for comfort.

A young, enthusiastic male might charge once or twice, but lose interest of it doesn't work.

Outside, in more human dominated landscapes of Greater Gir; This relationship verges towards extremes. Near the forests most villagers know how to behave.

The lions here, living in farmlands & plantations & orchards, are so used to people that you'll see unthinkable sights like this..

(Not just in Gir, it's exactly the same in tiger landscapes. For example check: #48 & #30 )

Living practicallyly side-by-side with people, most lions there have seen too much of humans without ever being threatened.

@Wolverine did a pretty good job. The only thing he missed is that they do attack, from time to time... Like this case of capture & release gone wrong.

Tshokwane · 01-19-2018, 04:57 PM

Catching up with this thread and let me tell you people that you have done an excellent job.

I don't get across many images of asian lions, when I do I post them, but it's very good to see more info and just simply more pictures and videos.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Rishi · 01-24-2018, 05:55 PM

Doing what they do best...

*This image is copyright of its original author

TheLioness · 01-27-2018, 10:23 AM

Not sure if this has been posted.

225 kg Asiatic lion fell Off bridge

http://deshgujarat.com/2009/12/09/lion-d...nt-page-1/

Spalea · 01-27-2018, 11:26 AM

@TheLioness :

About #372: A "8-years-old-225 kilos lion" died after failling off bridge ? But it was a colossus, what a waste !

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