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Tiger Predation
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 (11-27-2017, 11:26 PM)BARKA Wrote:(11-27-2017, 10:13 PM)Pckts Wrote: There is already a "tiger predation" thread. It's redundant, there is no need for a thread on the same accounts already posted.  (11-27-2017, 11:31 PM)Pckts Wrote:(11-27-2017, 11:26 PM)BARKA Wrote:(11-27-2017, 10:13 PM)Pckts Wrote: There is already a "tiger predation" thread. Alright, fair enough.
Here's an account, documented by Linda Kerley and J. Goodrich...of a habitual Bear killing Tiger, that specializes in killing Brown bears BIGGER then he is!
 *This image is copyright of its original author Huge Manchurian Amur tiger, estimated to be at least 300kgs, shot in the Sungari river basin by Yankovsky. This badass Tiger had killed and eaten an ENORMOUS ADULT MALE BROWN BEAR, a few days before it was shot.  *This image is copyright of its original author Legendary Tigress "Machli" killing a huge 14ft Crocodile! *This image is copyright of its original author Tiger T-42 carrying off his Sloth bear kill.  *This image is copyright of its original author Pench Tiger eating his adult Sloth bear kill.  *This image is copyright of its original author Sub-adult Tiger kills Leopard.  *This image is copyright of its original author Tiger eating Elephant kill. *This image is copyright of its original author
I know, a big tiger is perhaps, probably, the most powerful of the immensely impressive extant big cats, but as concerns the #1093 account, the panegyric of the tiger starts to be painful.
Killed and eaten an "ENORMOUS ADULT MALE BROWN BEAR,", where is the proof ? The information is proclaimed without the source. Perhaps is it only an hearsay ? One can indeed pretend and maintain that if the brown bear was really enormous the tiger didn't never dare to attack him. Wildfact forum isn't an english tabloid... (11-28-2017, 12:59 AM)Spalea Wrote: I know, a big tiger is perhaps, probably, the most powerful of the immensely impressive extant big cats, but as concerns the #1093 account, the panegyric of the tiger starts to be painful. That Tiger had killed a very large adult male Brown bear. That's the Sungari river Tiger, that was shot by the hunter Yankovsky. Yankovsky stated in his notes to Mazak, that this Tiger had killed and eaten a very large male Brown bear, a few days before he had shot it. This account is documented by V.Mazak in his book "Der Tiger".... There was also 2 other instances reported by K.G Abramov and Rakov of large adult male Brown bears being killed by Tigers! And as you can see by Kerley and Goodrich's account i posted above...Tigers have been WELL KNOWN to have hunted and killed larger Brown bears, then themselves. So a huge 300kg Tiger is EASILY more then capable of attacking and killing even the largest Brown bears out there. Biologist Lev Kaplanov has reported TWO instances of very large Brown bears running away from Tiger tracks! So clearly, even the large adult Bears have a fear of Tigers and that's why the Amur Tiger is widely acknowledged by ALL the Russian locals, hunters, biologists, guards and natives...as the UNDISPUTED KING OF THE FOREST AND THE MASTER OF THE TAIGA! John Vaillant (Author) actually went and spent time in the Russian far-east and interviewed MANY Russian locals, hunters, biologists and natives, and he quickly found out that the Amur Tiger completely DOMINATES both Brown and black bears, and regularly attacks and kills them. Here read this source.... https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGvV...ear&source= (John vaillant). 
There is no need to create new threads on arguments already treated in other threads. I move the thread to "Tiger predation" thread.
Yes, @Spalea was right, next time try to avoid the sensationalized headline and cap.
We are trying our best to make Wildfact to look more professional as possible.  (11-28-2017, 12:19 AM)BARKA Wrote: Here's an account, documented by Linda Kerley and J. Goodrich...of a habitual Bear killing Tiger, that specializes in killing Brown bears BIGGER then he is! Nor is taking things in an impartial way, we do not know the conditions of the big male bear, we do not know exactly if it was so big, the hunters can lie to make them hunt look bigger and more powerful of what it really is. we can say that tigers dominate bears, in general we have a lot of information where we know what kind of bears tigers dominate, it is not as if the average brown bear was so big that the average Siberian tiger, anyway the conclusions is that tigers and bears have a symbiotic relationship suitable to their ecological niche, big bears dominate tigers and tigers hunt bears ... anyway this does not mean anything of what it would be if a tiger and a bear fought each other.  (11-28-2017, 01:39 AM)BARKA Wrote:(11-28-2017, 12:59 AM)Spalea Wrote: I know, a big tiger is perhaps, probably, the most powerful of the immensely impressive extant big cats, but as concerns the #1093 account, the panegyric of the tiger starts to be painful. BARKA PC and Spalea, both good posters, and Ngala and Grizzly, both good mods, have a point. WildFact is a forum with good info, not a tabloid. We intend to continue in that way (good info). No need for threads with extra-special feats, that is. One could say that nearly every wild animal is performing extra-special feats every day and be close. You most probably know that I posted most of the info you used. You also know I do tigers and bears in the tiger-extinction thread. Although some biologists uncovered a few things over the years, tigers and bears still are close to a mystery. Linda Kerley, who has been in the Russian Far East for quite a few years, said anything is possible between tigers and bears. My guess is that most others who know about tigers and bears would agree. I could write a few pages on tigers and bears right now, but I could also say that I saw a male brown bear in a facility from close range. In the cage next to him was a male Amur tiger. Both were similar in size and age. The bear could have had a few pounds on the tiger. I never saw so much animosity and neither did the director. He decided to move the bear after a few days only. Good decision. Tigers and brown bears don't get along. This regarding captive animals. Wild animals are very different and much more capable in just about every respect. I thought I saw a bit of preference in your post on tigers and bears. My advice is to read a few more books. Can I recommend 'Winter Ecology Of The Amur Tiger' (A.G. Yudakov and I.G. Nikolaev, 2nd revised edition, Vladivostok, 2012)? Or 'Mammals of the Sowjet-Union' (A.A. Sludskij and V.G. Heptner, English translation). You read 'The Tiger' (J. Vaillant, 2011)? Excellent book as well. Vaillant is not a biologist, but he talked to people in the know. I hope the Russians will translate a number of books written by very competent biologists in the near future. As to a fair bout between a male Amur tiger and a male Russian brown bear of similar size (say 400-450 pounds) and age, including ring judges. My advice is not to underestimate the bear, even if he lost a bit of weight as a result of a bad cough. In order to learn, you need to let go of preference and add a bit of respect. Male Amur tigers and male brown bears are very close in many respects. As a serious fight would be risky, they try to keep things as civilized as possible. At times, as a result of circumstances, a fight can't be avoided. Incidents of this nature, however, are few and far between. (11-28-2017, 05:20 AM)CrysOmega Wrote:You guys immediately jump to conclusions, thinking i'm talking about a one on one fight...when i'm not! All i'm saying is that, that Manchurian Tiger was reported by Yankovsky, to have killed and eaten a very large adult male Brown bear, in which he actually found some of the remains of the Bear. (Head and arm)....(11-28-2017, 12:19 AM)BARKA Wrote: Here's an account, documented by Linda Kerley and J. Goodrich...of a habitual Bear killing Tiger, that specializes in killing Brown bears BIGGER then he is! "Big bears dominate Tigers"...I'm sorry, you're totally wrong. Even the large male Brown bears never challenge prime male Tigers over kills, never! Very large male Brown bears have actually been observed running away from Tigers tracks, even a Tigresses tracks. Large Brown bears have been chased from their dens by Tigers too. Yeah, you might get a few cases, here and there of large Brown bears getting it their way, but overall, in general...whether its a very large male Bear, large adult she-Bear or just an averaged sized Bear, they all FEAR the Tiger, period. I say this because, i've seen several documentaries, which talk about Amur Tiger and Brown bear relationships, and in every single one, the experts or the narrator always state, that the Tiger is the King of the Russian hills and Taiga, and is well known to regularly hunt, kill and dominate adult Brown bears. (11-28-2017, 06:24 AM)peter Wrote:You guys take everything the wrong way! I never even implied large Bears are nothing compared to Tigers, not once. I do respect the Brown bear and i'm well aware its a powerful and formidable foe for any Tiger, just like Vaillant stated. All i'm saying is that in the wild, it's a well known FACT, that the Siberian Tiger regularly hunts, kills and dominates both the Brown and Black bears. This has been stated in MANY documentaries i've seen and in scientific literature.(11-28-2017, 01:39 AM)BARKA Wrote:(11-28-2017, 12:59 AM)Spalea Wrote: I know, a big tiger is perhaps, probably, the most powerful of the immensely impressive extant big cats, but as concerns the #1093 account, the panegyric of the tiger starts to be painful. And i've read Kerley's email, when she said "Anything can happen between Tigers and Bears"...but note, she never once said that adult male Tigers are killed or challenged. It was mostly talking about Tigers killing the adult Brown bears. As for "Mammals of the soviet union" Here you go!... Tigers will tackle Bears, ones much larger then themselves.  *This image is copyright of its original author Large Brown bears were chased from their dens by Tigers, and forced to become rovers.  *This image is copyright of its original author And yes, Vaillant isn't a biologist, but remember...he personally talked to many of the Russian locals, guards, hunters, natives and biologists. So he based his conclusion from them. Why would he write "Russian Brown bears belong to the same species as the American grizzly, and can reach 1000lbs in weight, in spite of this, their known to flee at the sight of a Tiger".... Obviously, for him to state such a thing, they must have told him that even large adult Brown bears run away from Tigers. And as for V. Mazak, he was a renowned biologist, mammalogist and zoologist, and he clearly thought that the account from Yankovsky was reliable. And that's not surprising at all. That Tiger was a massive, powerful beast, easily capable of predating on and killing a massive male Brown bear. I'm sure, that if Amur Tigers were thriving in huge populations, like a hundred years ago...we would be getting more cases of large adult male Brown bears being killed and eaten by dominant male Tigers. I totally respect what a Bears capable of, as experts and even Vaillant acknowledges it. But, the Tiger is a totally different beast, which is known to have attacked and killed Bull tusker Elephants and adult Rhinos, so a male Brown bear is nothing special.
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You speak about tiger like a teenager speaking of his favorite hero by a totally biased way. By reading you the tiger is the only one invulnerable creature of the animals kingdom. You only retains some hearsays totally in favour of your beloved animal idol. Do you know the Chinese whispers ? A man told what a man told what a man told... And you're for the moment the final link but your version has perhaps nothing to see with the initial version. The wild life is, by far, much more spectacular, subtle and beautiful than a court of animals under the eagis of the tiger king (Tiger !). Just try to be objectiv, a little bit... If you absolutely want to pay allegiance to king tiger king go into another forums, you will meet some opponents laudating the lion king, the brown bear king, the polar bear king and so on... Everybody likes to hear itself talk, trying to overwhelm the others of his sermon, without paying attention to some opposite or objectiv arguments. It would be genious for you, you could speak so for the eternity ! In order to praise the tiger that killed a big brown bear you exhibit a photo showing his corpse... Paradoxal ! You're like the hunters who value their skins.  (11-28-2017, 05:48 PM)BARKA Wrote: And i've read Kerley's email, when she said "Anything can happen between Tigers and Bears"...The emboldened part is true. Everything else you've said is an assumption... Quote:...Tiger is a totally different beast, which is known to have attacked and killed Bull tusker Elephants and adult Rhinos.Alone? Source please.. Quote:Even the large male Brown bears never challenge prime male Tigers over kills, never!And how do you know that? Himalayan bear's have been recorded doing it.. successfully.. by James Edward Corbett. The basic law of natural selection is that predators would go for the weakest. A tiger that doesn't pick fight with a Brown bear (& vice-versa) would live longer... We have unconfirmed reports of male bears having been killed by tigers. But what @CrysOmega meant by "we do not know the conditions of the big male bear, we do not know exactly if it was so big"..is that we don't have any follow-up info. We don't know how old it was... We don't know if it was sick/injured... We don't know whether it was hibernating (a bear's most vulnerable state)... A 600lb tiger wouldn't risk its life attacking a perfectly healthy 600kg bear, just so that people will sing songs about its bravery on Wildfact.
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You are already been warned by Peter: tries to moderate a bit your tones and your language, this place is not a social like Facebook, so try to respect the rules and the other members, you can bring the arguments even without failing respect. This is the second warning. |
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