Lions of Sabi Sands

[sik94]

(09-19-2017, 01:51 AM)CRYPTIC Wrote: lol I thought the younger ones killed a matimba. Can u pls tell me how many matimbas  are alive now and how they died

The younger avocas never challenged the northern or the southern matimbas. Reply

[sik94]

(09-19-2017, 01:51 AM)vinodkumarn Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 01:44 AM)sik94 Wrote:

(09-18-2017, 11:48 PM)vinodkumarn Wrote:

(09-18-2017, 11:33 PM)CRYPTIC Wrote: Can believe 2 inexperienced SUB-ADULT males beat three veterans. I thought number games would have the marimbas winning

Those Avocas are fathers of the the 2 young males. (Old Avocas were 3 in number joined by 5 Giraffe males, their half-brothers) Of the total 8 males, 3 went to Kruger.. currently 5 of them are in reign

I find it hard to believe that the older avocas fathered the younger, unless they had been dominant males before the age of 4. Since they are both called the avocas, aren't they a previous litter from the avoca pride?

The young Avocas are born in early 2013, older Avocas were born in 2008 I believe.
Yes, they became dominant early.
Giraffe males are little younger, the youngest one in particular is 2 years younger than Other Giraffe males. (4 born in sep 2009, younger one born in Sep2011)

so they never left their natal pride? something doesn't add up here. Reply

[vinodkumarn]

(09-19-2017, 02:03 AM)sik94 Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 01:51 AM)vinodkumarn Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 01:44 AM)sik94 Wrote:

(09-18-2017, 11:48 PM)vinodkumarn Wrote:

(09-18-2017, 11:33 PM)CRYPTIC Wrote: Can believe 2 inexperienced SUB-ADULT males beat three veterans. I thought number games would have the marimbas winning

Those Avocas are fathers of the the 2 young males. (Old Avocas were 3 in number joined by 5 Giraffe males, their half-brothers) Of the total 8 males, 3 went to Kruger.. currently 5 of them are in reign

I find it hard to believe that the older avocas fathered the younger, unless they had been dominant males before the age of 4. Since they are both called the avocas, aren't they a previous litter from the avoca pride?

The young Avocas are born in early 2013, older Avocas were born in 2008 I believe.
Yes, they became dominant early.
Giraffe males are little younger, the youngest one in particular is 2 years younger than Other Giraffe males. (4 born in sep 2009, younger one born in Sep2011)

so they never left their natal pride? something doesn't add up here.

Here is some info about the 2 young Avoca males that are staying around in Sabi sands.
These two males comes from the Avoca pride in southern Timbavati/Ngala game reserves and their fathers are the unusuall coalition of 2 Avoca males coalition and their 4 half brothers the Giraffe males coalition(They have the same fathers the old Ross males).
These 2 young males went nomadic last year and was first seen in Manyeleti and then they came further south to Sabi sand and Elephant plains and where viewed with a buffalo kill there in October-2016 and since then they have been as far south as Kirkmans kamp and Skukuza in KNP and then made their way north again and in to the western sector where they spent a couple of weeks and now they are seen in Malamala and Londolozi in Matshapiri males territory.
These 2 are born in early 2013 and they have 3 brothers that are 3-6 months younger that stayed a while longer with the pride but they are nomadic now and have been seen a few times in Manyeleti.
Who knows where they will end up or if they will find their brothers but its going to be interesting to follow these males.

Photo Credit:Eckson Sithole Reply

[sik94]

I meant the older avocas, did they never leave their natal pride? The only way they could've fathered the young avocas is if they became dominant over their natal pride. Reply

[vinodkumarn]

(09-19-2017, 02:36 AM)sik94 Wrote: I meant the older avocas, did they never leave their natal pride? The only way they could've fathered the young avocas is if they became dominant over their natal pride.

I don't know exactly.. Old Ross males were their fathers... Reply

[Tshokwane]

@CRYPTIC 

As Vinod said, you don't need to open new threads to keep the conversation. It's messy and people have to answer your questions somewhere else, instead of doing it here.

Just use the "new reply", or quote something you want to reply to, and keep it in this thread.

Thank you. Reply

[Space Jam]

(09-19-2017, 02:51 AM)vinodkumarn Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 02:36 AM)sik94 Wrote: I meant the older avocas, did they never leave their natal pride? The only way they could've fathered the young avocas is if they became dominant over their natal pride.

I don't know exactly.. Old Ross males were their fathers...

All the reports I've read say the Ross Males are the 2 sub adult avoca fathers. Reply

[SalemMagi]

The tailless Tsalala Lioness.. the living legend!! Caretaker, provider and protector of the 3 Tsalala Lions before they headed out on their own.. she is now raising and protecting 2 more male cubs with the help of her niece, the sister of the 3 Tsalala Lions. I love this crew! On a side note, these male cubs may be Matimba progeny.. Only time/space will tell!


http://blog.londolozi.com/2017/09/18/per...-pays-off/ Reply

[stronghold]

The Tailess lioness is a legend. She has the best best posture of any lioness. Hope the two cubs will reach adulthood. I guess lionesses with tsalala blood are the best mothers/aunts on raising cubs to independence Reply

[vinodkumarn]

The raw power of these animals never ceases to amaze me. After hearing a scuffle in a thicket nearby, this Ntsevu female came erupting out of the bushes with this duiker in her mouth. 
photo by Alistair Smith

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[vinodkumarn]

Credits: EP Game Reserve

Monday, 11 September 2017: One lioness of the Ximhungwe pride resting at Morningside
Tuesday, 12 September 2017: One of the Ximhungwe lionesses moving east from Phungwe pan
Wednesday, 13 September 2017: One of the Ximhungwe lionesses being chased of her impala kill by a pack of hyenas at Picanini Utah pan. Eight members of the Styx pride walking over Mhisi Mati open area
Thursday, 14 September 2017: Six members of the Styx lion pride resting north of Wessel`s camp.One Birmingham male lion resting south of Wessel`s camp. Three members of the Styx lion pride hunting a warthog on Airport Link
Friday, 15 September 2017: Nine members of the Styx lion pride and one Birmingham male lion resting at Ingwe pan
Sunday,17 September 2017: Eight members of the Styx lion pride feeding on their waterbuck kill on Chitwa open area. Two of the Birmingham male lions and ten of the Nkuhuma pride moving west from Parallel Road Reply

[T Rabbit]

I dont think the tailless cubs are matimba offspring. Tailles was avoind matimbas all the time cause of the tsalala sub adults who lived with her at that time. For oyher side some months before got pregnant she have been on idube land of majingis. The only ones who tolerated the tsalala subs were the majingis. She lived with the sub adults yet when she got pregnant. To me majingis were the fathers of these cubs. And they got close to the den site at londolozi when she had the cubs. Reply

[vinodkumarn]

(09-21-2017, 06:25 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: I dont think the tailless cubs are matimba offspring. Tailles was avoind matimbas all the time cause of the tsalala sub adults who lived with her at that time. For oyher side some months before got pregnant she have been on idube land of majingis. The only ones who tolerated the tsalala subs were the majingis. She lived with the sub adults yet when she got pregnant. To me majingis were the fathers of these cubs. And they got close to the den site at londolozi when she had the cubs.

@T Rabbit Nope, I remember that the rangers reporting Tailess mating with Matimbas.. I don't recollect exactly.. It's Londolozi rangers.
I will try to get the source and post the link here..
It's most likely Matimbas, but nobody is completely sure Reply

[vinodkumarn]

(09-21-2017, 06:25 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: I dont think the tailless cubs are matimba offspring. Tailles was avoind matimbas all the time cause of the tsalala sub adults who lived with her at that time. For oyher side some months before got pregnant she have been on idube land of majingis. The only ones who tolerated the tsalala subs were the majingis. She lived with the sub adults yet when she got pregnant. To me majingis were the fathers of these cubs. And they got close to the den site at londolozi when she had the cubs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Well done to Irene who managed to capture this picture of the two cubs before they disappeared out of sight. You can tell they are still very young by all the black spots on their forehead and it may still be sometime before they leave the safety of their den site. Photograph by Irene Nathanson

This begs the question as to who the fathers of these cubs may be as this will be of vital importance to their survival going forward. About five months ago, which is when these cubs would have been conceived, the two Matimba Males were being seen regularly in the same area that the Tailless female was, so it’s most likely that they are the fathers, but we also can’t rule out the possibility that it may be one of the Matshipiri Males or even one of the Majingilane Males as fathers due to the distance and area that the Tailless female had moved through during that time.

Link: http://blog.londolozi.com/2017/05/06/upd...way-pride/

I will try to get another source as well where it was mentioned that Matimbas mated with Tailless roughly when she was conceived...
But we never know who are the fathers.. Reply

[vinodkumarn]

The 2 Avoca males are back with the Kambula pride- they spent the day together in the Sand River at it’s confluence with the Rock Drift Donga.
Credits:  Paul Danckwerts of Mala Mala

*This image is copyright of its original author

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