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08-10-2017, 07:06 PM( This post was last modified: 08-10-2017, 07:11 PM by Michael )
(08-10-2017, 05:31 PM)Tshokwane Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
I wouldn´t use the coalitions from the Mara has a metric to determine the length of a coalitions dominance, for example in the case of the Musketeers I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
That said the same can be said for the SabiSands, I guess the Majingilanes are a good case study but if Dreadlocks wasn´t poached what would have happened, we can´t extract any meaningful data due to our own interference
(08-10-2017, 07:06 PM)Michael Wrote: I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
I don't think his injuries were life threatening, I think they just wanted to save the eye. People simply can't keep their hands to themselves, because one less eye wouldn't have changed much.
In any case, the difference in Mara lions is that they shift territories much more than SS lions, but they still need to be strong to keep what they conquer.
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
I wouldn´t use the coalitions from the Mara has a metric to determine the length of a coalitions dominance, for example in the case of the Musketeers I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
That said the same can be said for the SabiSands, I guess the Majingilanes are a good case study but if Dreadlocks wasn´t poached what would have happened, we can´t extract any meaningful data due to our own interference
If dreads wouldn't have been poached, then they would have held on a little longer.
But remember that they were still getting old. With Mak being 14, PB being 12, T being 10 and if dread was still alive, e would have been 12 as well. And rememebr that the selati were coming into their prime and as much as I love the Mapogos, that old age would have been the end of them.
But still, even while being old and 3, they held off the selati males as long as they did. And this while they were outnumbered.
The same can't be said about the manginjis. They haven't faced any threat like that. All lions they have fought have been in 2 or 3 max. And in the case of the selati, they never fought them as a 3 vs 4, they fought them as a 4 vs 1.
I respect them staying n power for so long but I hate when people leave out the reason why. If the matimbas hadn't separated, who knows what they might have accomplished. They were massive lions themselves and they were 6 strong!
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
but look, the selati coalition was huge. they were 4 males and they only ruled western sabi sands for only 2 years. i mean the majingilanes were the same 4 males and could keep their dominance for much more years than selatis and more years than biggest coalitions than them like mapogos, matimbas or skybed males. i mean they have some answer to that who is not related only to number.
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
I wouldn´t use the coalitions from the Mara has a metric to determine the length of a coalitions dominance, for example in the case of the Musketeers I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
That said the same can be said for the SabiSands, I guess the Majingilanes are a good case study but if Dreadlocks wasn´t poached what would have happened, we can´t extract any meaningful data due to our own interference
If dreads wouldn't have been poached, then they would have held on a little longer.
But remember that they were still getting old. With Mak being 14, PB being 12, T being 10 and if dread was still alive, e would have been 12 as well. And rememebr that the selati were coming into their prime and as much as I love the Mapogos, that old age would have been the end of them.
But still, even while being old and 3, they held off the selati males as long as they did. And this while they were outnumbered.
The same can't be said about the manginjis. They haven't faced any threat like that. All lions they have fought have been in 2 or 3 max. And in the case of the selati, they never fought them as a 3 vs 4, they fought them as a 4 vs 1.
I respect them staying n power for so long but I hate when people leave out the reason why. If the matimbas hadn't separated, who knows what they might have accomplished. They were massive lions themselves and they were 6 strong!
Evolution Theory. Survival for the fittest!
Probably fittest here means physically as well as whoever are logically as well! (I Mean strategical/cleaver)
If Majis are able to pick up fight s which they are certain that they can win, why not other coalitions
In that sense they are clever and ruling for more time.
Well, Majingilane lions are the most popular lion group in existance (most known for moving every lion group out of their way) for 5+ years. This group is what got me loving lions!
But I'd also put them on the level of the Mapogos as well.
(08-11-2017, 06:08 AM)Polar Wrote: Well, Majingilane lions are the most popular lion group in existance (most known for moving every lion group out of their way) for 5+ years. This group is what got me loving lions!
But I'd also put them on the level of the Mapogos as well.
@Polar I agree with you.
Mapogos are the lions drew me to read and follow about lions.
Arguably they are my Favourite! (Along with other CoaliCoalitions too!!)
Majis for sure is the coalition that deserved to beat Mapogos
08-11-2017, 06:42 PM( This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 03:35 AM by HouseOfLions )
(08-11-2017, 05:49 AM)T Rabbit Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 05:31 PM)Tshokwane Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
but look, the selati coalition was huge. they were 4 males and they only ruled western sabi sands for only 2 years. i mean the majingilanes were the same 4 males and could keep their dominance for much more years than selatis and more years than biggest coalitions than them like mapogos, matimbas or skybed males. i mean they have some answer to that who is not related only to number.
Yes, they were 4 strong but when the manginjis attacked them, they were only 3. And each selati was attacked in a 1 vs 4 fashion, there is proof of this. The final fight was the one where selati 3 (the biggest selati) fought against the 4 manginjis and then passed away from his injuries. That is not the same as when the Mapogos fought the selati as a 3 vs 4, then as a 2 vs 4 and then finally a 1 vs 4!
The manginis kept their dominance because after the selati were defeated, they fought no other coalition as big as them or bigger. The selati came into power by beating 3 old Mapogos, the manignjis then beat them as 4 vs 1 and that that, no coalition came into the sabi that was as big as these coalitions, except for the BBoys. Literally, all these years that you talk about, they have never fought any coalition as big as them once! (and don't bring in the BBoys, these 2 coalitions have never fought each other)
And what answer do the manginjis have to not have fought an equal battle as themselves? Literally, all the manginjis fight have been against lions that were, at best, 2 strong and in the case of the selati, they never fought them as a coalition! Even now, they have not been put to the challenge! Why? Because most of the coalitions in the sabi are 2 at best.
This is why I have been saying that the manginjis and selati got lucky that the matimbas split up because if they hadn't, they would have caused havoc on the sabi.
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
I wouldn´t use the coalitions from the Mara has a metric to determine the length of a coalitions dominance, for example in the case of the Musketeers I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
That said the same can be said for the SabiSands, I guess the Majingilanes are a good case study but if Dreadlocks wasn´t poached what would have happened, we can´t extract any meaningful data due to our own interference
If dreads wouldn't have been poached, then they would have held on a little longer.
But remember that they were still getting old. With Mak being 14, PB being 12, T being 10 and if dread was still alive, e would have been 12 as well. And rememebr that the selati were coming into their prime and as much as I love the Mapogos, that old age would have been the end of them.
But still, even while being old and 3, they held off the selati males as long as they did. And this while they were outnumbered.
The same can't be said about the manginjis. They haven't faced any threat like that. All lions they have fought have been in 2 or 3 max. And in the case of the selati, they never fought them as a 3 vs 4, they fought them as a 4 vs 1.
I respect them staying n power for so long but I hate when people leave out the reason why. If the matimbas hadn't separated, who knows what they might have accomplished. They were massive lions themselves and they were 6 strong!
Evolution Theory. Survival for the fittest!
Probably fittest here means physically as well as whoever are logically as well! (I Mean strategical/cleaver)
If Majis are able to pick up fight s which they are certain that they can win, why not other coalitions
In that sense they are clever and ruling for more time.
Sorry, but this is incorrect! The only reason they were able to pick their fights with smaller coalitions was because there was no other big coalition for them to fight! And that is the main reason why they have stayed in power for so long.
Like if coalitions as big as the manginjis, matimabas and selatis had not come into the sabi, then the mlowathis/Mapogos would have never been defeated. Their numbers were just too great!
As I said, imagine 6 Mapogos holding on to the west and there only being coalitions of 2/3 around them. The Mapogos would have never lost any battle if that were the case! That is literally what is happening here! You can keep saying they were smart in picking their fight but when you consider the fact that there were no other fights for them to pick, then you will understand what I am saying.
Don't get me wrong, it is clever but the only reason they have been able to do this is because of LUCK!
08-12-2017, 07:31 AM( This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 08:06 AM by sik94 )
(08-11-2017, 07:00 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote:
(08-11-2017, 05:55 AM)vinodkumarn Wrote:
(08-11-2017, 12:50 AM)HouseOfLions Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 07:06 PM)Michael Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 05:31 PM)Tshokwane Wrote:
(08-10-2017, 06:14 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: i mean 8 years old ruling a territory is too much for a coalition as the male lions usually have just 2 years old of average territory control.
more than 7 years
That is what was usually said in documentaries, and is partially wrong, particularly when it comes to large coalitions.
The Mapogo males reached 6+ years of dominance, the Notch males about the same time, the Musketeer males have been dominant for at least 5 years I think.
So an extended dominance time is something to take note of, but it doesn't make them unbeatable, and certainly doesn't make them "better" than others.
I see that you like them, so do I. But over here we try to keep a balanced view of the lions without pretending one is way better than others so if I was you I'd try to temper those statements that border on fanatism a bit.
Thanks.
I wouldn´t use the coalitions from the Mara has a metric to determine the length of a coalitions dominance, for example in the case of the Musketeers I highly doubt without all the vet interventions Scarface has received over the years he would still be alive so removing the human interference from the equation we would most likely have the coalition reduced to three male lions and that would have changed a lot of things.
That said the same can be said for the SabiSands, I guess the Majingilanes are a good case study but if Dreadlocks wasn´t poached what would have happened, we can´t extract any meaningful data due to our own interference
If dreads wouldn't have been poached, then they would have held on a little longer.
But remember that they were still getting old. With Mak being 14, PB being 12, T being 10 and if dread was still alive, e would have been 12 as well. And rememebr that the selati were coming into their prime and as much as I love the Mapogos, that old age would have been the end of them.
But still, even while being old and 3, they held off the selati males as long as they did. And this while they were outnumbered.
The same can't be said about the manginjis. They haven't faced any threat like that. All lions they have fought have been in 2 or 3 max. And in the case of the selati, they never fought them as a 3 vs 4, they fought them as a 4 vs 1.
I respect them staying n power for so long but I hate when people leave out the reason why. If the matimbas hadn't separated, who knows what they might have accomplished. They were massive lions themselves and they were 6 strong!
Evolution Theory. Survival for the fittest!
Probably fittest here means physically as well as whoever are logically as well! (I Mean strategical/cleaver)
If Majis are able to pick up fight s which they are certain that they can win, why not other coalitions
In that sense they are clever and ruling for more time.
Sorry, but this is incorrect! The only reason they were able to pick their fights with smaller coalitions was because there was no other big coalition for them to fight! And that is the main reason why they have stayed in power for so long.
Like if coalitions as big as the manginjis, matimabas and selatis had not come into the sabi, then the mlowathis/Mapogos would have never been defeated. Their numbers were just too great!
As I said, imagine 6 Mapogos holding on to the west and there only being coalitions of 2/3 around them. The Mapogos would have never lost any battle if that were the case! That is literally what is happening here! You can keep saying they were smart in picking their fight but when you consider the fact that there were no other fights for them to pick, then you will understand what I am saying.
Don't get me wrong, it is clever but the only reason they have been able to do this is because of LUCK!
It's not just luck. The majingalanes had the matimbas in the north and the 5 mapogos in the west, and they also had the young selaties. Maybe part of it is luck but a coalition surviving their time as dominant males without losing a single member for over seven years in an area as competitive as the sabi sands can't be all luck. The majingalanes have managed to navigate this minefield too effectively for far too long, its gotta be something about the way they behave as a coalition.
08-12-2017, 01:00 PM( This post was last modified: 08-12-2017, 01:04 PM by IñigoMontoya )
In my opinion their success is due that they was always kept together. In fact they lost his only member when he split of them and Mr.T and KT kill him. Since then, they never fight alone. (Very inteligent - Union make force).
Is true that since they became kings no great coalition go into the Sabi Sand to conquest territories and prides as they did themselves.
Matimba coalition divided in two minor coalitions like Mapogos. Northern Matimbas 4 members and sourthern Matimbas 2 members (The most famous Hairy Belly and Ginger Boy), and they never didnt go into Sabi Sand all together to conquest territories or prides.
On the other hand, normally big coalition elude big confrontation(Well Mapogo were a exception and they entered into the territories and they did not care how many males would have , but they were unusual lions) because they have more to lose than to win. (wounds, and possibly lose members etc etc). I think is unusual see combats of 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5 or 4 vs 5 etc etc all together.
Being together, I dont think any coalition actually attack Majingilane coalition. (maybe BB but i doubt it). The problem for they, is actually they are away from each other for patrol. Scar nose alone and Dark Mane and 3r tooh so far him. Divided are very vulnerable. (and they are old lion)
History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions
