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John Varty & Tiger Canyon
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John Varty is just an entertainer wears conservationist mask for more money.
Jungles for Tigers is like water for fish of-course they can live in small cups to big aquariums but you cant call it as CONSERVATION.  The so-called re-wilding Indochinese tigers (btw they are mixed breeds) in South African savanna is beyond funny. 
Jon Varty is far from "an entertainer"
I find it funny that some people question his qualifications when the guy owns Londolozi, transformed it from a hunting reserve to a Game reserve, in fact, my guide in Africa used to work for him, had nothing but great things to say about him and his love for wildlife. Also, his cats have never been said to be "indochinese" they were said to be bengals but they are Bengal/hybrids, still his intentions aren't malicious imo, I have grown to respect him more and more.
Tiger re-wilding project
In 2000, John started a Bengal tiger re-wilding project near Philippolis in the Free State.[15] Starting with captive bred tigers, the aim is to establish a wild tiger population outside of Asia. In 2003, the progress was documented in a The Discovery Channel production called Living with Tigers. In 2011, National Geographic made a second documentary called Tiger Man of Africa.[16] The project has received controversy after accusations by their investors and conservationists of manipulating the behaviour of the tigers for the purpose of a film production, Living with Tigers, with the tigers believed to be unable to hunt.[17][18][19] Stuart Bray, who had originally invested a large sum of money in the project, claimed that he and his wife, Li Quan, watched the film crew "[chase] the prey up against the fence and into the path of the tigers just for the sake of dramatic footage."[17][18][19] Quan and Bray also accused them of financial mismanagement after a legal audit uncovered that he had borrowed R5.7-million of the funds for extraneous and personal expenses.[20] Quan and Bray subsequently established the Save China's Tigers Laohu Valley Reserve, also near Philippolis. Moreover, scientists have also established that the tigers are not genetically pure, which would imply that the project has no conservation value.[21] ========================== OK Good.... Where he want to rewild Bengal tigers (mixed)?? in African Savanna or India ?? ... What is that documentary name : Living with tigers .... Wow.Why not!! btw There are so-many hunting parks are there in South Africa and they says they are killing lions for conservative purpose only.IF they allow tiger-hunting the entire hunting INDUSTRY moral hi-ground will collapse that is why this stupid drama. I don't have problem with BELIEVERS.... BILLION+ PEOPLE believes there is a SKY DADDY.There is nothing wrong if some one believes tigers rewild in African savanna or Sahara desert. 
Where exactly did he do something wrong?
You're taking a disgruntled investors word as gospel, what qualifications does the investor have with wildlife, does he know anything about training a captive animal to hunt? He has already spoke on the sub species issue and most here have a similar opinion on tigers having a 2 sub species break down for conservation's sake. http://www.jvbigcats.co.za/newsletters114.htm And he initially tried to re-wild tigers in india but the indian gov't turned him down, So what exactly is the issue with him moving the project to africa? At least these cats get a far better life than they would in captivity, he brings attention to their struggle in a continent unfamiliar with Tigers which adds interest in protection. He's not using them for canned hunts and he is offering people a different safari experience, seems like a decent thing to do.
You are very experienced person if you believes tigers can be re-wild in African savanna ...... OK good.
Tigers breed like pigs in captivity (one litter for every four months) unlike one litter for every 2/3 years in jungle and that too more than half will die before maturity. Actually i am very happy with this stupid China/US/South African tiger breeders at-least wild ones won't be killed or captured for medicines and for entertainment purpose. Anyway, some believes he is conservationist and tigers will be released in Africa etc.Some thinks he is a cheat,fraud and fake. ME: Who the F* cares those tigers are junk at-least we get some entertaining videos and pics. 
At the beginning of his project Varty said, in his initial arguments, to believe that there were only two subspecies of tiger: Continental and Insular. Trusting in his "intuition" he decided to use the Bengal x Siberian hybrids, considering them strong and resistant, therefore more apt to his project in the South African Karoo.
Published in the journal of unrestricted access "Science Advances" the article below in small size: New scientific research could help to protect tigers (Panthera tigris) from extinction. The findings indicate that tigers should be classified as only two subspecies – up to now nine subspecies were previously recognized. This will have a significant impact on species conservation since management efforts and breeding programmes can now be organised in a simpler, more flexible and effective way. The compilation and detailed analysis of the most comprehensive dataset for tigers ever assembled allowed scientists from the German Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research (IZW), National Museums Scotland, the Selandia College in Denmark and the Natural History Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen to carry out a critical evaluation of the nine putative tiger subspecies. They found that most of these subspecies were much more similar to each other than previously known. Only two tiger subspecies could be clearly distinguished: The “Sunda tiger“ (Panthera tigris sondaica), formerly from Sumatra, Java and Bali and the “Continental tiger” (Panthera tigris tigris) from mainland Asia. From the perspective of conservation, the northern population of the “Continental tiger” (Amur tiger) should be treated as a distinct conservation management unit from the southern populations, since it is adapted to different environmental conditions. For the first time multiple trait datasets of the six living and three extinct tiger subspecies described so far were compared. The morphology of more than 200 tiger skulls as well as the coloration and stripe patterns of more than 100 tiger skins were compared with molecular genetic data and ecological and life history traits. The results did not support the distinction of nine subspecies previously described for tigers. Only the Sunda tiger from the islands of Sumatra, Java and Bali could be clearly and unambiguously distinguished from populations of the Continental tiger. These detailed analyses also lend further support to the idea that there was a massive population decline of tigers after the super-eruption of the Toba volcano on Sumatra about 73,000 years ago. Tigers may have only survived in a single refugium in South China, from where all modern tigers then originated. Worldwide there is significantly more concern about and money spent on the conservation of tigers than on any other individual wildlife species. However, fewer than 4,000 tigers roam around the forests of Asia - a historically low number. For the tiger to survive at all, these small and shrinking populations require active conservation management. The discovery that only two tiger subspecies exist paves the way for new conservation management options in that global protection efforts can now be implemented more flexibly and effectively. “A classification into too many subspecies – with weak or even no scientific support - reduces the scope of action for breeding or rehabilitation programmes. For example, tiger populations in South China and Indochina have been reduced to such low numbers that – if each continue to be classified as separate subspecies – they would likely face extinction”, explained Dr Andreas Wilting from the IZW, the leader of the study. The new tiger classification allows for the combined conservation management of these populations and the Malaysian and Indian tiger, as all four populations from the southern part of continental Asia can now be managed as a single conservation unit. "The results of our collaborative research offer an exciting, pragmatic and more flexible approach to tiger conservation. Now we can plan the restoration of wild tiger populations with confidence, knowing that there is a sound scientific underpinning to tiger taxonomy", says Andrew Kitchener from National Museums Scotland. The main goal of worldwide conservation efforts is to double the tiger populations by 2022. For this purpose, all remaining individuals are essential for the long-term survival of the tiger. The resulting high genetic diversity will ensure that tigers have sufficient adaptability to cope with future environmental changes and the challenges of new pathogens. The new study provides the scientific basis for a practical and effective tiger recovery. The project implemented in Laohu Valley Reserve has some inconsistencies: 1. PantheraTigris Amoyensis is practically a mythical animal, there is no western entity to participate in genetic studies that can "globalize" the real situation that lives this subspecies. "Only Chinese attest to the pure existence of this subspecies. In my humble ignorance I find it strange that a single country holds four subspecies. 2. After 15 years of development and support from the Chinese government, no tiger has been relocated back to China. The Chinese government did not and is not doing, that is to say it has not made available nor is in progress a fenced area of about 50,000 hectares to house such tigers. This project is used by the Chinese government as a conservationist propaganda. 3. The recent separation of the couple that coordinates the project is casting somber lights, accusations from both parties. I started reading about Varty's project in 2015. I appreciate your insigts. His posts contain many original ideas and some eccentrics, but always presents a rich and constructive reading. I have no doubt about your enormous experience and your good intentions. The financial need in the trophy hunting case that seems to displease most of those who commented on the post is a very complex issue where animal welfare tends to prevail over many practical aspects of conservation. Maybe Varty is not just a madman but a great visionary. 
Did John Varty allowed tourists to use tranquilizer darts on his tigers for monetary reasons ?
 (12-29-2016, 10:31 PM)Vinay Wrote: You are very experienced person if you believes tigers can be re-wild in African savanna ...... OK good. Well, if u wanna try an experimental project that has never been achieved before (not in large enough scale to make a difference) with 50:50 chance of success what's better than some expendable tigers in another continent?!.. If one escapes can't pollute the local genes but will be swiftly identified & recaptured by the authorities..which would have been impossible here. Also tigers live in a mosaic of woods & grasslands. If he can train them to live & more importantly, hunt in those scrublands..doing it vis-a-vis their natural habitat would be easier at worst. THE EXPERTISE & EXPERIENCE HE GAINED RETAINS ITS POTENTIAL. (Even if he is a fraud, hes one with a UNIQUE SKILLSET) Take Ranthambore for example, its tiger numbers were poached to as low as 12..twice. That means today in the whole West Indian Tiger landscape including RTR, Sariska TR, Mukundara Hills, Kuno all tigers alive came from a source population of <dozen!!.. But we have tigers captured from those areas in our zoos that can fill the genetic void...Same applies for whole of detoriating genes of Amur & Indochinese tigers. HE might be "The one"..He might be the key...  Here are some of the grand specimens rotting in our zoos..what a waste!!!  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
(01-29-2017, 02:47 PM)Rishi Wrote: Well, if u wanna try an experimental project that has never been achieved before (not in large enough scale to make a difference) with 50:50 chance of success what's better than some expendable tigers in another continent?!.. Both are same leave few chickens in Jungle and see what happens next!! ..... 99.9 - 100% will die within days.  *This image is copyright of its original author This is the main difference between Junglee and Zoo/Artificial Animals.You may produce millions of Animals but they won't survive in their natural environment as nature is cruel very very cruel. 2. They all are Cats and almost identical but Tiger strength is Jungle Lion strength is Pride(Pack) Leopard strength is few trees That is why Tigers never lived in India's West,Pakistan,Iran areas where Asiatic Lions thrived. Just imagine Single Big Orange Cat moving towards deer in open grass lands(savanna) ..... it is just a joke.
Firstly..I dunno why u quoted my post, U don't seem to have even read it.
Now let me reply to yours paragraph-wise... (01-31-2017, 01:18 PM)Vinay Wrote: Both are same leave few chickens in Jungle and see what happens next!! ..... 99.9 - 100% will die within days. Bad analogy. The zoo samples I showed are purebred bengals, (thus not broiler poultry, but captive fouls in zoo), most not more than 3rd gen. in captivity. They themselves ared definitely too old to be trained to hunt, but with those genes deserve to sire cubs who can be rewilded.. Thus i am talking about using Varty's METHODS, not his TIGERS... Quote:2. They all are Cats and almost identical but The individual species may have dominated those landscapes, but their ranges do/did overlap. The Canyon tigers hunt-survive there, & as I said, "If he can train them to live & more importantly, hunt in those scrublands..doing it vis-a-vis their natural habitat would be easier." (01-04-2017, 09:46 PM)Pckts Wrote: I've seen no proof of it. @Pckts I remember seeing a post about this with a picture. I think you too spoke about this some time ago, I guess you mentioned Guate was the original poster of that info (Im not exactly sure). Unfortunately Im not able to find that original post about John varty and tiger darting. Do you remember ?
Don't know how any one can deny these marvelous pictures?? ......No doubt they are 100% WILD tigers ... John Varty remained as one of the natures great conservationist who trained Tigers to be WILD and hunt on their own in African Savanna.
Hope Bengal,Sumatran and Syberian Wild tiger conservationists also follow him and befriend wild tigers.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
(01-31-2017, 05:10 PM)Vinay Wrote: Don't know how any one can deny these marvelous pictures?? ......No doubt they are 100% WILD tigers ... John Varty remained as one of the natures great conservationist who trained Tigers to be WILD and hunt on their own in African Savanna."No doubt they are 100% WILD tigers" . Exactly, they're NOT!!!  (Not in tiger canyon)Those zoo-bred, hand-reared, bengal-siberian crosses are his fundraisers & experiment subjects whom he tried to teach hunting by trial&error method.. Later in Laohu Valley, the pure-bred South China tigers can & does live a wilder independent live & (contrary to what u claimed) regularly hunts for sustainence in those grasslands... "Just imagine Single Big Orange Cat moving towards deer in open grass lands(savanna) ..... it is just a joke." . I don't need to IMAGINE  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author "John Varty remained as one of the natures great conservationist who trained Tigers to be WILD... . MAYBE we will say that 50yrs from now... ...and hunt on their own in African Savanna." . ONLY IF he can use that experience to replicate it with purebreds in Asia." THAT REMINDS ME, I threw a challenge... Quote:Fine, try & identify which 2 of these pics were taken in South Africa..YOU AREN'T NOT JUST A TROLL, ARE YOU ?! (01-31-2017, 03:37 PM)YApollo Wrote:(01-04-2017, 09:46 PM)Pckts Wrote: I've seen no proof of it. When I went back and searched for it I found nothing other than what Guate said as well. So for me at least, he gets the benefit of the doubt. From what I've learned since from continued monitoring, I have become more understanding of his position and ideals. |
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