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Bigcats News
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Stunning Pictures: Inside Africa's Last Wetland Wilderness
 *This image is copyright of its original author There's no fearing water for these cats. The lions of Duba Plains, in the Okavango Delta's northern reaches, often get wet when charging after prey. According to the Wilderness Wildlife Trust, the prides here account for an estimated 1,500 of the world's lions; Botswana is one of only seven countries believed to have more than 1,000 of the big cats left. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...00x450.jpg More photos on the link above 
Tiger count goes up in Dudhwa; 10% in core areas
The roar of the tiger is getting louder at the Dudhwa Tiger Reserve, with the recent census revealing a rise in tiger population by eight to 10 % in its core area. The last census, held in 2010, had indicated about 80 tigers in the core area of the reserve — which includes the Kishenpur Wildlife Sanctuary and parts of the Dudhwa National Park. As many as 112 tigers were counted last time in the entire range that included Katarniaghat, Kishenpur, Pilibhit, North and South Kheri along with the core area of Dudhwa. At present, data collected from the Dudhwa Tiger Reserve's core area has shown a rise and census officials indicate that the final count would be larger. As many as 382 photographs have been downloaded from the cameras which were installed in Kishenpur sanctuary and Dudhwa National Park. "Each photograph is being studied by scientists to decipher one tiger from the other on the basis of the pattern of their stripes," said deputy director of Dudhwa Tiger Reserve VK Singh. The preliminary findings of the data collection done under first phase of tiger census conducted by the National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA), all over the country, have come for Dudhwa and Kishenpur. At other places, the exercise is still underway. Camera trapping is on in three tiger-dominant ranges of Pilibhit and partially in North Kheri. In South Kheri, it might begin post-monsoon. To come up with an extensive information on felines in Dudhwa, tiger census is two-pronged exercise for UP this time. It will not only count tigers but also do a detailed research on big cats, their habitat and prey in the reserve. The cameras are installed at spots where maximum population of herbivores has been sighted like grasslands and water bodies because that is where tigers can be clicked more frequently. To make camera-trapping more intense, a pair was installed per 1.6 sq km in Dudhwa and Kishenpur. At other places also, maximum number of cameras would be installed. The final figure would be sent to the National Tiger Conservation Authority, which is conducting the exercise all over the country. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/...536463.cms
Lansdowne corridor haven for tiger poachers
Lansdowne division corridor, which connects Rajaji National Park with Corbett Tiger Division and facilitates movement of big cats and elephants in between these two protected areas, has become a haven for poachers due to lax patrolling. There is no provision for patrolling by forest guards in the corridor as it is not a protected area. Last week, images of three poachers were detected on camera trap used for tiger census, a forest official said. However, they escaped before any action could be taken against them, the official said. A proposal to bring certain areas of the division under RNP and CTR, which would ensure patrolling, is lying with the state government since the last two years, a forest official added. Rajiv Mehta, honourary wildlife warden of RNP, said, "The south side of Lansdowne borders with Bijnor district which has Amangarh range. In areas like Badapur, Sauwala and Imangarh of Amangarh, poachers have dug deep trenches to trap the animals." He said this is the place where Bheema, the kingpin of Bavaria gang of poachers, was arrested by the forest officials. Bheema had confessed to staying in Amangarh range and Lansdowne corridor area to strategize and execute his plan to kill tigers, Mehta said. There is an urgent need to protect the Lansdowne corridor, he added. According to sources, Lansdowne division has around 25 tigers, while RNP has around 12-15 tigers. The division also comes under Shivalik Elephant Reserve and has 100 elephants. While RNP has been declared a tiger reserve by National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA) and is awaiting a similar nod from the state government, there is no such proposal for Lansdowne division. RNP and CTR get funding from NTCA and have a system in place for protection of wild animals which Lansdowne does not. Division forest officer of Lansdowne division, Nitishmani Tripathi, told, "A large human settlement has grown in and around Lansdowne division over the past many years. To declare this division a tiger reserve will mean displacement of scores of people living in these areas, which will create a lot of hue and cry and political interference." He said to avoid that, it has been proposed to merge two ranges of Lansdowne — Landang and Kotdwar — with buffer zone of RNP and two other ranges — Kotri and Dugada — with CTR. The proposal was sent to the state government for approval two years ago, but still no decision has been taken, he added. Tripathi said for the survival of tigers of RNP, protection of Lansdowne corridor is a must as it is the weakest link which poachers always exploit for their nefarious activities in RNP as well as CTR. "The state government must take timely steps for the merger of four ranges of Lansdowne division in RNP and CTR without any further delay," Mehta added. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/...529522.cms 
ACT: Call on CITES to end tiger farming
From TigerTime blog Between July 7-11 the 65th meeting of the CITES Standing Committee gathers in Geneva – their role is to ensure that the international trade in wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival. Tigers are expected to be on the agenda on Thursday 10 July under the discussion on Asian Big Cats. Tiger ‘consumer’ and ‘captive breeding’ countries (namely China, Thailand, Lao PDR, Myanmar and Vietnam) have been failing to comply with CITES recommendations to:
PLEASE call on your country’s representative at CITES to speak out against tiger farming and call upon China to destroy all stockpiles and end any domestic trade in the parts and derivatives of captive tigers by emailing them TODAY! Suggested email: (please feel free to change it but do remember that offensive language is often counterproductive) Dear Sir As a supporter of TigerTime, which aims to conserve tigers in the wild and to end the trade in tiger parts from all sources, PLEASE speak out against tiger farming and call upon China to destroy all stockpiles and end any domestic trade in the parts and derivatives of captive tigers when you attend the CITES Standing Committee in Geneva this July. Without compliance from China, and other tiger breeding countries, the continuing illegal trade in tigers threatens the survival of the remaining 3,200 tigers in the wild. We have to act NOW or face the unpalatable truth that our generation failed to save the tiger. Yours sincerely Here is a list of email contacts for you to use: India - Mr S S Garbyal [email protected] UK – DEFRA [email protected] USA – USFWS [email protected] Netherlands - M van Nijnatten [email protected] Germany – Gerhard Adams [email protected] Canada – Canadian Wildlife Service [email protected] Australia - Department of the Environment [email protected] Thailand - Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation [email protected] / [email protected] Vietnam – Vietnam Administration of Forestry [email protected] / [email protected] Lao PDR - Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry [email protected] / [email protected] China - The Endangered Species Import and Export Management Office of the People's Republic of China [email protected] / [email protected] Myanmar - Nyi Nyi Kyaw, PhD [email protected] / [email protected] ----------------------------------------------------------- More about CITES and the plight of the tiger WHAT IS CITES? CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival. CITES is an international agreement to which States (countries) adhere voluntarily. States that have agreed to be bound by the Convention ('joined' CITES) are known as Parties. Although CITES is legally binding on the Parties – in other words they have to implement the Convention – it does not take the place of national laws. Rather it provides a framework to be respected by each Party, which has to adopt its own domestic legislation to ensure that CITES is implemented at the national level. More at http://cites.org/eng/disc/what.php It is an important global platform not only for conservation and anti-trade groups but for pro-trade groups too. WHY DOES CITES MATTER TO TIGERS? The trade in tigers – an endangered species - and their derivatives is illegal and the captive breeding of tigers represents a very real threat to the survival of the species in the wild. CITES Declaration 14.69 states: “Parties with intensive operations breeding tigers on a commercial scale shall implement measures to restrict the captive population to a level supportive only to conserving wild tigers; tigers should not be bred for trade in their parts and derivatives.” The problem is that some ‘Parties’, namely consumer countries such as China, Mynamar, Thailand, Lao PDR and Viet Nam who have breeding facilities*, have not complied with CITES recommendations to:
It’s time to get tough on the Parties that are failing to comply and along with other NGOs we want to:
*illegal trade, including international trade, in tigers from captive facilities has been reported in Thailand, Lao PDR, Viet Nam and Malaysia. Since 2000, at least 260 tigers likely to have come from captive sources have been seized in these countries. There are at least 41 known facilities in Thailand, Lao PDR and Viet Nam that keep and breed an estimated 1,459 tigers. China licenses domestic trade in captive bred tiger skins, and reportedly has more than 5,000 tigers held in c.200 facilities.
Tiger turf nets five poachers
 *This image is copyright of its original author In a major breakthrough late last evening, foresters nabbed five poachers of a 13-member armed group from inside the core area of Palamau Tiger Reserve (PTR) near a dam in Betla, recovering traditional and modern ammunition, nets and turtle meat from them. Hailing foresters for giving a “spirited chase to poachers” in the evening, Premjit Anand, divisional forest officer (core) of PTR, the state’s lone tiger reserve, claimed credit for his team for preventing major wildlife harm, despite the reserve’s well-known worry of manpower crunch hitting epidemic proportions. Anand said: “A patrol team of three or four trackers spotted 13 intruders around 3pm yesterday near Nunahi Dam in the reserve’s Betla area. Poachers attacked our small team with sticks and axes. But we sent reinforcements, including tiger strike force personnel, home guards and senior foresters. After a long hide-and-seek on forest terrain, the 30-member team caught five, while eight managed to flee.” He added that interrogation of those caught — Sunder Singh, Binod Singh, Edition Singh, Suresh Singh and Bijender Singh — revealed that the poachers were all experienced hands hailing from Barwadih in Latehar, and planned to stay put inside the forest to unobtrusively kill animals at night. From poachers, foresters seized axes, a farsha, nets, traps, a cellphone and a rod used to fill gunpowder in countrymade pistols. They also recovered meat of two turtles, an endangered species. “Samples of turtle meat have been sent to Wildlife Institute of India, Dehradun, for DNA analysis,” Anand said. The accused have been booked under sections of Wildlife (Protection) Act 1972 (Amended 2006) and produced before subdivisional judicial magistrate in Latehar. Stressing they had beefed up security after dramatic events of yesterday, Anand said they were coordinating with their Latehar counterparts to catch the eight. “We know their identities,” he added. But even as Palamau officials congratulate themselves for preventing a catastrophe, there is no getting around the fact that the tiger reserve has too few staffers, putting it at the mercy of trespassers. The reserve has around 124 sanctioned forest guard posts, but some 26 currently exist. Even so, their average age is between 57 and 58, making them too old for the physically demanding task of forest patrol. Palamau makes do as best it can with casual labourers as patrolling teams and trackers. But for a reserve that incorporates Betla National Park, and covering area from the edge of Netarhat hills in the south to Auranga river in the north, nudging Madhya Pradesh in the west and Latehar-Sarju road in the east, adequate manpower and infrastructure help are crucial. Thick groves of palas (Butea monospermas) and mahua (Madhuca indica), which gives Palamau its name and wildlife its privacy, also make the job of patrolling difficult. Palamau reserve, which announced its closure from today to September 30 to make tourism off-limits in the monsoon breeding season, needs to nudge the state to fill vacancies and secure its borders. Two years ago in February, a leopard skin was seized from PTR. In February 2013, high alert was sounded when Panna Tiger Reserve, Madhya Pradesh, told Palamau counterparts about Bahelia and Pardhi hunting tribes having infiltrated Jharkhand. In November 2013, over 50 traps were recovered. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140702/js...7RpAvmSy6A
Bor to become country's 47th tiger reserve
Bor Wildlife Sanctuary in Maharashtra will become the country's 47th Tiger Reserve with Environment Ministry today notifying it as a tiger reserve with an aim to strengthen the conservation efforts of the national animal. The ministry also approved the recommendations of a technical committee of National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA) for a project to establish ecological baselines for long term monitoring of tigers in the Dibang Wildlife Sanctuary and adjoining landscapes in Arunachal Pradesh. The proposal for Dibang Wildlife Sanctuary was mooted by the Wildlife Institute of India and would also conduct monitoring of co-predators and prey species apart from tigers. "The ministry has approved the recommendation on a proposal from the State of Maharashtra for notifying the Bor Sanctuary, New Bor Sanctuary and the New Bor Extended Wildlife Sanctuary as a core/critical tiger habitat of a tiger reserve," Environment minister Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He added his ministry was doing work both related to the development as well as conservation of environment.Officials said that Bor is the sixth tiger reserve of Maharashtra and since it would now fall under Project Tiger, the reserve will get a boost as it would receive fundings and technical support. "With Project Tiger coverage, the reserve would receive funding and technical support which would strengthen tiger conservation, besides ecodevelopment to benefit fringe people," a ministry statement said. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/envi...674545.cms
Lion cub gets stuck up a buffalo derrière during feeding time
Check the link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/vi...-time.html
Drones to Watch Over Big Cats at Panna
After six months of successful trials, drones will soon be deployed in Madhya Pradesh’s Panna Tiger Reserve to keep an eye on the dwindling population of tigers. It will be for the first time that the country will deploy unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for wildlife research and management. The Wildlife Institute of Indian (WII), Dehradun, and a US-based company Conservation Drones, since January were holding trials at Panna, the final results of which have been satisfactory. Initially, the National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTAC) plans to use drones in Panna and based on the results, will replicate the same in other reserves. The trials were held using an assembled drone worth Rs 6 lakh. Experts from Conservation Drones Lian Pin Koh and Simon Wunderlin were in Panna to demonstrate the working and training the officials. According to WII scientists, the country is now in a position to deploy UAVs for wildlife research and management. “It has been excellent initiative and sets an important milestone in the history of wildlife conservation. During June 26-30, independent missions were successfully carried out by our team. We shall be working towards deploying UAVs in selected sites and will continue work on improvisation to make the technological integration robust,” said K Ramesh, UAV Programme Coordinator, WII. He said deployment and integration of drones would be taken up indigenously, while research and development would continue with national and international partners. Drones can help the forest officials get updates from the dense forest areas as they have a receiver system that can penetrate into a canopy of trees, he said.There are 47 tiger reserves in the country. http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/D...311319.ece
Tiger poaching: Then and now
Life is a short flight, So breathe light, Undo the scent of the game and fly, even when the wings are torn' - the concluding lines of the book, Scent of a Game, sum it up. Human beings need to develop compassion for nature in general and wildlife in particular.Raghav Chandra, additional secretary and financial adviser of Central Ministry of Agriculture, looks at tiger hunting and poaching from an outsider's point of view. As an IAS officer of the Madhya Pradesh cadre, he was posted around several national parks. This sparked Chandra's interest in wildlife and the sensitive issue of tiger poaching.Chandra, who has degrees from Delhi University and Harvard University, had closely observed and been moved by the conflicts that critically endangered India's ecosystem and wildlife. "Tiger poaching was rampant between 2005 and 2008. It was the time when the President set up a task force to curtail the practice. Those were disturbing times and India lost many a tiger to hunters," said Chandra. "Though tiger poaching has come down now, more conservation efforts need to be put in as 'presidents require special protection'," Chandra added, referring to tigers. Tiger poachers were in abundance Around 2006, tiger poachers were plentiful in Madhya Pradesh and the death toll was, quite shockingly, a 'tiger-a-day'.Although the rate has come down, according to Chandra, "Conservation efforts need to go beyond the call of duty." He says the only way to protect wildlife is through individuals and government agencies joining hands. "All stakeholders must come together to participate in conservation efforts," he adds. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/...765967.cms
Tiger body parts found in pieces on Highway of Thailand
 *This image is copyright of its original author PHATTHALUNG, Thailand — Wildlife traffickers dumped three bags of tiger parts and fled on the Highway on Tuesday when they came across a police checkpoint, police said. Police and wildlife officials were called to the Phatthalung-Hat Yai section of the highway at Moo 4 village in tambon Ta Kae after three suspicious bags containing parts of a dead tiger were discovered at the scene. The team searched the bags and found parts of two hind legs and a front leg, weighing 65 kilogram. The head and torso of the tiger, believed to be a female aged six to seven, were not found, according to Pol Lt Col Chakchai Payabchaikul, commander of the 237th Border Patrol Police company. The road where the tiger parts were dumped leads to Phatthalung town, and police were manning several checkpoints on the route. The wildlife trafficking gang may have thrown away the animal parts to avoid a police search, Pol Lt Col Chakchai said. He believed the tiger was killed and smuggled from one of the three southernmost provinces - Pattani, Yala or Narathiwat. A kilogram of tiger flesh can be sold in the local wildlife black market for 4,000 baht (£71). The seized carcass parts could be worth up to 250,000 baht (£4,500) locally, and 350,000 baht if smuggled to China. PHOTO COURTESY: Border patrol police show the parts of the tiger carcass. (Photographer Assawin Pakkawan) Source: Bangkok Post Credit to tiger TigerTime.
Rajasthan govt sanctions mining leases in leopard reserve
The Rajasthan government, in violation of the Supreme Court order on mining near forest areas, has sanctioned about 10 stone quarries adjacent to Jawai Bandh Leopard Conservation Reserve in Pali district. The reserve, the home to unique cave-dwelling leopards, is facing a serious threat with the mines department planning 44 more mines in Kothar region, the core habitat. The department has issued 30 years' lease and two of the lease holders have started work, carrying stone blasting just metres away from caves inhabited by the leopards. Chief conservator of forests Rahul Bhatnagar on Monday said: "I inspected the area. The mines adjoining the leopard reserve are a serious threat to their habitat. The mining department hasn't obtained no objection certificate from the forest department." The mines department denied any violations. "The mines don't fall in the permissible limits. We have issued directions to close the mining in the area after objection from the forest department," Sojat city mining engineer Bheem Singh said. Cave-dwelling is a unique feature of the leopards of Jawai Bandh. "In other forest reserves, like Kabini in Karnataka, leopards live on trees. It is only in Jawai Bandh that one can see leopards living in caves. These leopards have brought the small town area on global map," said Baljeet Singh, a wildlife observer. "But now mining is a threat to these unique leopards as it is destroying their habitat and this may even lead to their extinction," he said. The Jawai Bandh region is not only home to about 50 leopards but has sloth bears, wolves, chinkaras and crocodiles, The Jawai dam, biggest in western Rajasthan, is habitat to more than 200 crocodiles and aquatic life amid the Thar desert. The Jawai Bandh was a protected forest till early 2010. On February 23, 2010, the state government declared it a leopard reserve with an area of 19.78 hectares. Former state environment minister Bina Kak said, "Leopards are an asset to this region. The area has the potential like the Ranthambore reserve to be on global map." The Community Reserve Panther Conservation, a drive launched to associate local communities for prevention of mining, has been able to get the consent of only three out of 11 panchayats in the area. "In Pali district, we have identified 30,000 hectares of land under farming. This is spread over 21 villages of 11 panchayats. As many farmers are apprehensive that forest department might acquire their land, only few have given their consent for the programme," a forest official said. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/...977478.cms
Surplus Ranthambore tigers to be shifted to other habitats
 *This image is copyright of its original author The forest department of Rajasthan is facing an uphill task to manage the growing population of tigers in the Ranthambore Tiger reserve due to intra-specific fights resulting in grievous injuries and even death of the stripped cats. There has been reports of five tiger deaths due to intra-specific fight in Ranthambore. To avoid this situation taking a serious turn, the state forest department is contemplating to shift a few tigers from their original home to other suitable tiger habitat areas of the state.In recent past there has been reports of five tiger deaths due to intra-specific fight in Ranthambore Tiger Reserve. Wildlife experts are of the firm view that to manage a situation where the population of the feline increases beyond the carrying capacity of the area, the only solution is to shift the extra tigers to other suitable areas enabling them to lead a normal healthy life.As per census carried out in Ranthambore Tiger Reserve, there are around 60 tigers which also includes cubs. Going by the core area of the tiger reserve which is spread over 1,113 square km and the buffer zone comprising 298 square km, the space is certainly not adequate for the current population, feel experts who are of the view that the current population can only be sustain the existing tiger population in the same space if the prey base density becomes high. “Since such a situation does not exists, the solution is to shift the additional tiger, else apart intra-specific fights, the tigers may also stray out of the park in search of new homing ranges where a direct conflict with humans cannot be ruled out,” pointed out an expert who added that under those circumstances there could also be possibilities of tigers being poached. As per the management plans being drawn by the state forest department, the surplus tigers would be shifted to Sariska tiger Reserve and also to Alwar and Kota reserve forest areas, said an official of the state forest department.[/font] http://www.indileak.com/surplus-ranthamb...-habitats/
“Since such a situation does not exists, the solution is to shift the additional tiger, else apart intra-specific fights, the tigers may also stray out of the park in search of new homing ranges where a direct conflict with humans cannot be ruled out,” pointed out an expert who added that under those circumstances there could also be possibilities of tigers being poached."
What are they talking about??? It exists in a neighboring Country. The kaziranga Tigers in Assam have the highest mortality rate of any big cat due to fighting. It also has the highest tiger densisty anywhere. While I think moving them is a good idea, why can't the tigers just naturally find new territory on their own? Also, I theorize that Ranthambhore is only going to produce larger and larger tigers just like Kaziranga. I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing more and more massive tigers coming from there. TFS, glad to see tigers actually doing better in some parts of the wild.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author About 14-16 a year killed due to in fighting. Here was P. Tigris comparing in to lion populations .79 x 39 = 30.81 per 2000-km2 (number of space is 2000-km2, and only 30.81 lions (after calculating) died by other lions) <-- 30.81 lions KILLED by other lions in 2000km2 area. 2000-km2/430-km2 = 4.65116279 (2000-km2 is is what the space of the lion study was experimented on in the Serengeti, 430-km2 is the total size of Kaziranga Park. So the Serengeti is 4.65116279 times larger then Kaziranga, so we will take proportions..or else the study is just unfair and can't get you an accurate conclusion. 2000km2 (Serengeti) / 430km2 (Kaziranga) = 4.65, so that means the Serengeti is 4.65x larger than kaziranga. As 430 * 4.65 = 2000km2. Here are the calculations: It was about 300 lions total, in 2000-km2 area Look on page 2/11, he quoted "Detailed field work was conducted in 1996–2001 on approximately 300 lions living in a 2000-km2 area of the Serengeti National Park (Packer et al. 2005) and approxi- mately 50 lions living in the Ngorongoro Crater, Tanzania (Kissui & Packer 2004). Long-term behavioural, demo- graphic and photographic records on these populations date back to 1963 (West & Packer 2002). We located indi- vidual prides by sight and by radiotelemetry. All study lions were individually recognizable by natural markings and were habituated to vehicles. On average, each lion in the study area was seen once every 3–4 days. For the purposes of this study, we concentrated on adults (4 years) and subadults (between 2 and 4 years)." All of Kaziranga is 430-km2, compared to 2000. Check here: http://www.wildlifetrails.co.uk/india/kaziranga.htm There isn't even 110 tigers in Kaziranga. And that is debatable, some say it is as low as 50. http://www.dnaindia.com/i...ion-in-the-world_1376993 From the above study/test done, 144-km2 of land in Kaziranga had 38 individual tigers, and that was in the most populated parts of Kaziranga, with the more Eastern parts almost vast of tigers. They concluded this with camera traps. None of them are collared, either, and they live in the dense jungle, how many do you think would be reported? Not even 1/4 of mortalities would probably even be noticed and reported..forest guards would help that 1 quarter of it, though. 79% of the lions had wounds from other lions.. .79 x 39 = 30.81 per 2000-km2 (number of space is 2000-km2, and only 30.81 lions (after calculating) died by other lions) 2000-km2/430-km2 = 4.65116279 (2000-km2 is is what the space of the lion study was experimented on in the Serengeti, 430-km2 is the total size of Kaziranga Park. So the Serengeti is 4.65116279 times larger then Kaziranga, so we will take proportions..or else the study is just unfair and can't get you an accurate conclusion) 4.65116279/number of lions killed which = 30.81 lions killed by other lions, so 4.65116279/30.81 = 6.6 deaths per year with the same size territory as tigers, and these lions were radio collared, the tigers weren't. Do you get it? Since the lions were in a 2000km2 area, taking numbers in equal proportion, and then dividing the density to each other to get a fair result. We are making it fair by comparing territory & density sizes. That means, 6.6 lions ---- 13 tigers. http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/top...77wVrEysyg This ^^ is the link to the forum discussion as well. Hope this helps Apollo. |
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