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Animal Strength Feats
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 (07-17-2016, 07:33 PM)chaos Wrote:(07-17-2016, 03:40 PM)Spalea Wrote: A lioness dragging a hippo's carcass out of the water after having took it from crocs: ...and the hippo not an adult by appearances; but a heavy load nevertheless. 
Correct, they said it was a young hippo and most of its stomach region is gone.
The two professional swimmers/divers in the big cat world.
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
The following is of a tiger biting a tractor tire (weighs anywhere from 400-700 pounds) and flipping it. Not really a good representation of a big cat's strength since it is built differently, but anyway:
Video of a man showing the bite strength of a white tiger Solano. The tiger nearly bit through the bull skull completely and detached the horns only with bites: Captive tiger flinging human mannequin like a ragdoll, with just its jaws:
Tiger attacking cow and trying to pull the cow directly off its feet with his excessive forearm pulling strength:
In a (supposed) armwrestling contest between two of the strongest-looking tigers, I'd bet my life on either Raja or Waghdoh over any other tiger hands down, with the possible exception of KZT-083: he looks to be 300-kg and has a mean amount of arm thickness himself!
But, of course, tigers (or any other carnivore) for that matter can't armwrestle efficiently, if at all. 
WILD BIG CATS, STRENGTH AND ENERGY
Strength he has, the tiger who featured in the video. He apparently (we didn't quite see what happened) got the job done, but would only qualify for the amateur department. My take is he was a captive animal enjoying a bit of fake freedom, provided he would give it a try with a camera. Or else. I have different old videos. Most of them are from India, but some were shot in southeast Asia, Sumatra and Russia. Very often, they're way better than what we are fed today. Opinion only, of course. In one of these, with excellent clearity and colours, a wild male tiger attacks a water buffalo. The tiger had set an ambush along a well-used trail. When the big boy came round the corner, he immediately attacked. Frontal attack. No sound. Before the horns were down to confront his opponent, the tiger had a grip on the throat and used his experience to topple the giant male. It wasn't even a match. I remember he positioned the buffalo in such a way, that the horns were buried in the ground. Although the tiger was a powerful male, it was technique all the way. In another documentary, a hunter had shot a bull elephant. Might have been what used to be South Vietnam. Next morning, the body had been pulled inside the jungle. It turned out it had been done by one tiger. Or, more accurate, a tigress. The hunter couldn't believe his eyes, but the only tracks he found belonged to the tigress. In his book 'The tigers of Terengganu', Lt.-Col. Locke described how a tigress dragging a full-grown male buffalo of immense size into a thicket. This buffalo could not be moved an inch by many strong men. The jeep also couldn't. In a German documentary, a German filmer followed three Russian rangers. The tiger, by the way, was a tigress. After some days, they found the skull of a male wild boar in a sea of blood. The skull was immense. I didn't know wild boars could reach that size. The German filmer didn't believe one word of what the rangers told him. I mean, the tiger had been a female and the wild boar most definitely was at least twice her weight. The Russians told him he knew next to nothing about tigers. After that incident, they didn't take him seriously anymore. He knew and left to interview a few 'authorities'. Half a century ago, in the harbour of Djakarta, Sumatran tigers and big, semi-wild, buffalos were pitted against each other for sailors. There were many bets, but they didn't know they were baited into a game they could only lose. Drugs, my father said. He saw one fight between two animals that had not been drugged. The male tiger moved round the buffalo, used his forearms to control him and broke his neck while both were still standing. Less than ten seconds, my father said. He never saw a wild Sumatran tiger over 300 pounds, but wasn't amazed. Energy at work. Wild big cats have immense strength. An experienced cat, however, uses mental energy, timing, speed, technique, power and knowledge to overpower large animals. In that order. Question of seconds, not minutes. In the tiger extinction thread, I posted true stories about tigers fighting large animals. With true, I mean they were witnessed. Northern India, a century ago. Fighting is different from hunting in that the cat takes a deliberate risk. Could take a long time, whereas hunting only is a question of seconds. Why do wild tigers fight dangerous animals at times? Nobody knows, but I think they, at regular intervals, need to get rid of their energy and, for that reason, pick a fight with an animal that can kill them. I also think they're not the only ones. For reasons we do not quite understand, wild animals, and males in particular, need a lot of energy to keep on top of things. This is real life; you're there or not (close to 'To be or not to be', so it seems). At times, it gets to them. Even a captive adult male big cat suffers from it at times. Experienced trainers know this and often change their routines to prevent trouble. Lions can always go for each other when they suffer from energy overloads, but tigers can't. You have to distract them by changing the routine, because you can't offer then a fight. Too dangerous and too costly. In the old days, it could have been (and often was) different. Trainers knew about the need to get rid of overloads and often found a way to enable the cats to regain their mental health. Today, a trainer doing just that would be arrested and tried for 'cruelty'. Today, we invest in technique (referring to computers and everything related). The more you invest, the bigger the chance you drift away from the essence of life. If you become alienated, chances are you will never experience the connection between yourself and something you really like, love and know. What remains, is not not based on real understanding, but something else. As emotions can not develop in this way, neither can the soul. An undeverloped soul is a tormented soul seeking for a way out. This is the moment disease develop. Not seldom, people start to play characters they do not really understand. Stereotypes could be a result, but more often it's more serious than that. In the end, after a few more billion have been added, the world could become a theatre. A world without any real meaning in which only the tormented and the mentally disoriented feature. What I'm saying is many of us just don't get the opportunity anymore to experience things of value. When numbers rise, it will speed up. No need to discuss the only logical outcome, is there? Children, however, are not affected. Same for animals. And the natural world. All are important to us in a way that can't be really understand. People do know, and than they don't. What to do? Maybe a forum about the natural world can help. Life, after all, is about something you could describe as essential and it's very real. It also belongs to this planet. Not saying that all of us need to experience the natural world to develop, but than we do. Returning to big cats, strength and the soul. Wild big cats took many, many years to develop into the model we see today. They have immense fysical strength, but it doesn't start there. My take is it starts in the soul. Not the mind. Someone who knows about birds of prey wrote captive raptors will visit you when you don't think, but feel. The moment you start thinking, they're off. Maybe animals are way more emotional that we think and maybe we can learn a lot from them. In the thread 'Tigers in Central India', the struggle for territory between Chota Munna, Kingfisher, Bheema and Umarpani was described, illustrated and followed. As all males seemed similar in size, the struggle took time. In the end, Kingfisher and Bheema succumbed. I asked about a possible explanation in my last post in that thread. PC thought tenacity could have been decisive. Just like in humans, maybe. I'm not sure, but my take is it wasn't a result of size, strength, age or something close. Same for skulls. Both Wagdoh and Raja, who survived many fights for years, have relatively short skulls. Although it's quite clear that size is one of the outcomes of the countless struggles in the well-stocked but smallish reserves of India, many, if not nearly all, wild male Indian tigers entering their prime are large and solid animals. Size is an effect but it isn't decisive, that is. Something else is. Maybe energy is the factor we're discussing. (12-15-2016, 06:56 AM)Polar Wrote: Tiger attacking cow and trying to pull the cow directly off its feet with his excessive forearm pulling strength:Even though that is probably a captive setting, that still is a big bull that tiger is preying on. It gives you a little idea of how they would tangle with a large bovine like a Gaur. Stay behind the head, try to climb on back, rake and bite the nape and shoulder while trying to tire the prey out then finally get it to the ground where it can deliver a throat bite. Which brings me to the next point, it taps on what @peter said. "Technique" I couldn't agree more, there is reason a smaller wrestler will have little trouble with a larger man if said man has no experience in wrestling. Technique is the most important thing, you develop technique over time, this means you must "master the craft" and the only way to do that is practice. (12-15-2016, 12:37 PM)Polar Wrote: @peter, Locke, A. (Lt.-Col., Malayan Civil Service) - 'The tigers of Terengganu'. It was first published in 1954 by Museum Press Limited, London. There is a reprint by Vinpress Sdn Bhd (1986). I got the 1986 reprint. The story about the tigress is on page 39. I made a mistake in my last post. I wrote 8 fishermen couldn't move the carcass of the buffalo an inch (the photograph of the buffalo is opposite page 33). I also wrote a jeep couldn't move the buffalo. This is incorrect. Locke wrote the carcass was pulled out by a four-wheel drive truck fitted with a winch. I mixed two incidents that happened in Malaysia in about the same period. Locke, by the way, saw the tigress move the buffalo himself. Tigresses shot by him in that region (the fifties of the last century) averaged 7.4 in total length in a straight line only (n=8). The 11 tigresses shot by the Sultan of Johore half a century earlier in the southernmost part of Malaysia (Terengganu is on the eastern coast of Malaysia), however, averaged 8.2. The average of all tigresses (n=19) was 7.10. My guess is they could be shorter today. Malaysia is another example of tigers losing size in less than a century. The loss of size happened in a period in which they were severely hunted.   *This image is copyright of its original author here are the exact words of the photographer that captured this. all the credits to Max Ali. Quote:Record shot of the mighty Wagdoh as he pulled a full grown Gaur with ease.
@Roflcopters,
Good, old Waghdoh is my favorite Bengal Tiger. No surprise that he did that awesome feat.
Peter, about post #24; what are your thoughts about a tigress dragging the carcass of a bull elephant off a trail and into the jungle? Probably three tons ( 900 kg ) or more dead weight. This just doesn't seem possible to me. Am I missing something?
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