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The Mighty Mapogos
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I think all this proves is that every guide or eye witness wants to be the one to view "the largest" or "best" so of course they are going to say that "No, they aren't the largest, I have seen the largest" and "they are here or there"
I think that's human nature. We know better now, there isn't some secret big cat society that is going to produce the monster of monsters, it's usually going to be a 10-30kg difference and most likely, not that high when comparing averages and to determine which is larger or smaller will be very subjective.  (05-11-2016, 12:04 AM)Pckts Wrote: We know better now, there isn't some secret big cat society that is going to produce the monster of monsters, it's usually going to be a 10-30kg difference and most likely, not that high when comparing averages and to determine which is larger or smaller will be very subjective.Yeah, of course. It wasn't really about who was the biggest, I was rather more interested in his views on the whole matter. I do respect the opinion about size of the people that have seen them personally, but after a certain size, it gets very difficult to be objective about it. That said, I was impressed by what he said about Kalahari lions. Of course, I've just seen pics of them, but they appear to be lean, athletic lions, but not particularly big(considering for example the huge frame the amazing Skybed males have, to name one group). 
#209
so all the denial is based on the hypothesis that like the mapogos could be other lions in Kruger which have no been documented. This is very weak arguments. Could be but not documented. I would like to see evidence on all this, I want to see photos, videos, people witnessing things, until then the Mapogos remain the Gods. and if we leave KNP out and speak only about Sabi Sands where everything is documented and tens of guides drive around everyday, then the Mapogos remain the top coalition ever. / / Quote:so all the denial is based on the hypothesis that like the mapogos could be other lions in Kruger which have no been documented.There's no denial. It's merely the opinion of someone who has seen them and other lions. I understand your personal feelings on this subject, LionKiss. But I don't want to further derail the thread and get distracted with pointless things or get too personal about this. After all, they're just lions like any other, and there's still much to learn from their lives. Let's move on from this discussion and continue posting about them.
@Majingilane,
did you delete my reply to Pckts? no there are no personal feelings, I just don't want the biased opinions to fool me. Quote:@Majingilane,Yes. Quote:no there are no personal feelings,That is very good, it's a position I hold as well. What we have to be careful with is to express ourselves with respect, particularly here. (05-11-2016, 01:37 AM)Majingilane Wrote:Quote:@Majingilane,Yes. of course, but it is not only how we say something but also what we say and particularly why, what is the motive
What I totally dislike is when humans show disrespect to animals.
When they treat them badly, when they kill them for fan, when they enjoy when they get injured or die, when they enjoy when one animal kills the other. all these are very primitive human feelings and do not characterize a lion lover as we want to call ourselves. For me every lion death is sad, the death of the 5th Majingilane was sad, the deaths of KT and MrT were sad the death of the Toulon, the scrapper were sad. I think we must look deeper into ourselves when we found pleasure in the death of a lion or his cubs. I have noticed that some people enjoy the death of certain lions and their cubs, this is awful. Of course wild life takes its course and it is real cruel, we can't change this but we can't enjoy the death of lion. Sad will be when Hip Scar dies and there will be a missing "character" because every lion has a role and a "personality" if you watch him closely. wild life can make us more human IF we put aside our human complexes.
Kinky tail guarding his meal from the vultures.. Credits to Karin van der Merwe.
It's a video, click on it to play.
Mapogo Lions
6 male lion coalition who ruled almost the entire Sabi Sand from 2006 to March 2012. The Oldest Mapogo Male Makhulu Mapogo is said to be unrelated to the other 5. The story is that the original pride (Eyrefield/Sparta) lost a male sub adult of 20 to 21 months of age in May/June 2000 and in July 2000 this male of about the same age latched on to the original pride. Though not readily accepted by the lionesses, the West Street Males barely tolerated him though they did not kill him as he was no threat to their dominance due to his age. His life was not an easy one as he was considered an outcast, yet this young lion became one of the boldest and most valued hunters by helping to keep the pride fed when the West Street males became too old. The Mapogos - Lions of Sabi Sand This oldest Male is elusive. He is said to be bigger, bolder and darker than the other five. He is believed to be the sire of most of the Mapogo cubs that have been born so far but with more recent reports of matings it seems some of the other males will become fathers too if not already. One story about this older Mapogo male that sticks out in our minds is when Londolozi reported a sighting of two hyena clans on a buffalo carcass. A group of approximately 25 adult elephants standing shoulder to shoulder with little ones behind them were staring the hyenas down. A noise was heard behind the vehicle and when the spotlight was shown in that direction an “enormous” male lion burst into their sight roaring louder than any roar they had ever heard before which sent 30 hyenas scattering. It was the leader of the six Mapogos. He stared down the wall of elephants which after about 5 minutes of standing their ground finally gave way to the lone male and moved off. The Other 5 Males Dreadlocks, Rasta, Pretty Boy, Kinky Tail and Mr. T are said to be sired by the West Street Males but here is where the twist comes in...... the two youngest might have been sired by the Roller Coaster Males aka Shaw Males aka Castleton Males. The Roller Coaster males were believed to have started out as a Coalition of 6. Four of which enticed some of the Eyrefield/Sparta females into mating with them while the aging West Street males were away from the pride. Thus it is unclear who actually fathered the two youngest. And to add another little twist, it is said that the West Street Males who sired the Mapogos also fathered the Roller Coaster/Shaw/Castleton males. Order of Dominance During their time, Makhulu was the most dominant of the six with the next in line for dominance being Dreadlocks.  *This image is copyright of its original author
Amazing sounds.
The Mapogo males roaring at Djuma waterhole March 10, 2008. It was caught on Wildearth's live cam during the night. It's a video. Click on it to play.
"Godfather of Lion world, it is a great honor to touch you...."
Willem Botha & Co. taking blood samples from Makhulu (tuberculosis analysis) / pc by Botha  *This image is copyright of its original author
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