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02-13-2025, 01:57 AM( This post was last modified: 02-13-2025, 02:01 AM by MrLoesoe )
What do you guys think the Mantimahle sons are attempting here. They control Torchwood pride but have subadults there already.. so potentially looking to take over something? Could get bloody if they leave the north / Torchwood pride area and venture south, right, given that they are serious about looking for new females this time? With so many males in Sabi Sands. And these two males being powerful and confident.
edit: I know see that this was discussed a few hours ago in Kambula males thread already.
(02-13-2025, 01:57 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: What do you guys think the Mantimahle sons are attempting here. They control Torchwood pride but have subadults there already.. so potentially looking to take over something? Could get bloody if they leave the north / Torchwood pride area and venture south, right, given that they are serious about looking for new females this time? With so many males in Sabi Sands. And these two males being powerful and confident.
edit: I know see that this was discussed a few hours ago in Kambula males thread already.
Hi the way they are walking they seem to know there other lions, other male lions, and are focused walking carefully. Wondering of Kambula lionesses and maybe new cubs. Wondering if all Kambula lionesses would be ready for more cubs?
I remember not too long plain camp male lions were around. Maybe Kambula lionesses are getting other lions, male lions attentions.
They are walking carefully. I believe lionesses is why they were there.
Ndhzenga male lions have been with lionesses Kambulas who now may have new baby cubs.
When I saw this I was worried. I would not worry if Ndhzenga male lions were together. Hopefully together for both they would all just not fight just roar. I worry sometimes Ndhzenga male lions are with other Kambula lionesses and three cubs separated.
I wonder if Kambula lionesses with three cubs would start getting attention from other male lions in a few months.
Yes I was saying plain camp male lions were around. I think Plain camp male lions are careful. I see, they enjoy Ximunguwe lionesses and family. They may not see it worth it when with Ximunguwe lionesses and cubs. Plain camp male lions also around Othowa, and with Tsalala lioness. Mahangenis are also around if they choose to, but they have not been around them.
The way the two male lions are walking they seem to be walking like investigating. They must not be familiar, but know there are lions. They might start doing that slowly but I am not an expert. They might start doing that slowly more investigating. They might get familiar with how many lions are around; Male lions, and lionesses. Maybe in a few months May attempt the more time the more comfortable, confidence. They might learn know they are only two Ndhzenga male lions. They might learn how many female lionesses and male lions, and may not do anything. If they keep investigating might one day attempt, but it is why maybe Ndzhengae male lions will roar and chase.
They are both two brothers and both are around the same age. Maybe nothing happens.
It is interesting. Plain camp male lions have gone and left. Plain camp male lions have also gone north, and then left. These two male lions are about the same age as Ndhzenga male lion and bit older than plain camp male lions but left and are exploring.
Wonder what makes Ndhzenga male lions stay with Kambula lionesses. I know there are many lionesses, but a lot of male lions are with many lionesses.
(02-13-2025, 01:57 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: What do you guys think the Mantimahle sons are attempting here. They control Torchwood pride but have subadults there already.. so potentially looking to take over something? Could get bloody if they leave the north / Torchwood pride area and venture south, right, given that they are serious about looking for new females this time? With so many males in Sabi Sands. And these two males being powerful and confident.
edit: I know see that this was discussed a few hours ago in Kambula males thread already.
Hi the way they are walking they seem to know there other lions, other male lions, and are focused walking carefully. Wondering of Kambula lionesses and maybe new cubs. Wondering if all Kambula lionesses would be ready for more cubs?
I remember not too long plain camp male lions were around. Maybe Kambula lionesses are getting other lions, male lions attentions.
They are walking carefully. I believe lionesses is why they were there.
Ndhzenga male lions have been with lionesses Kambulas who now may have new baby cubs.
When I saw this I was worried. I would not worry if Ndhzenga male lions were together. Hopefully together for both they would all just not fight just roar. I worry sometimes Ndhzenga male lions are with other Kambula lionesses and three cubs separated.
I wonder if Kambula lionesses with three cubs would start getting attention from other male lions in a few months.
Yes I was saying plain camp male lions were around. I think Plain camp male lions are careful. I see, they enjoy Ximunguwe lionesses and family. They may not see it worth it when with Ximunguwe lionesses and cubs. Plain camp male lions also around Othowa, and with Tsalala lioness. Mahangenis are also around if they choose to, but they have not been around them.
The way the two male lions are walking they seem to be walking like investigating. They must not be familiar, but know there are lions. They might start doing that slowly but I am not an expert. They might start doing that slowly more investigating. They might get familiar with how many lions are around; Male lions, and lionesses. Maybe in a few months May attempt the more time the more comfortable, confidence. They might learn know they are only two Ndhzenga male lions. They might learn how many female lionesses and male lions, and may not do anything. If they keep investigating might one day attempt, but it is why maybe Ndzhengae male lions will roar and chase.
They are both two brothers and both are around the same age. Maybe nothing happens.
It is interesting. Plain camp male lions have gone and left. Plain camp male lions have also gone north, and then left. These two male lions are about the same age as Ndhzenga male lion and bit older than plain camp male lions but left and are exploring.
Wonder what makes Ndhzenga male lions stay with Kambula lionesses. I know there are many lionesses, but a lot of male lions are with many lionesses.
I’ve been thinking the same think about the kambula girls coming back into estrus and from the subadults birth in order k5 k7 and k10 all gave birth around dec 2022-Jan 2023 and k5 and k7 I think are pregnant so I assume k10 could be on the same path soon
(02-13-2025, 01:57 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: What do you guys think the Mantimahle sons are attempting here. They control Torchwood pride but have subadults there already.. so potentially looking to take over something? Could get bloody if they leave the north / Torchwood pride area and venture south, right, given that they are serious about looking for new females this time? With so many males in Sabi Sands. And these two males being powerful and confident.
edit: I know see that this was discussed a few hours ago in Kambula males thread already.
Hi the way they are walking they seem to know there other lions, other male lions, and are focused walking carefully. Wondering of Kambula lionesses and maybe new cubs. Wondering if all Kambula lionesses would be ready for more cubs?
I remember not too long plain camp male lions were around. Maybe Kambula lionesses are getting other lions, male lions attentions.
They are walking carefully. I believe lionesses is why they were there.
Ndhzenga male lions have been with lionesses Kambulas who now may have new baby cubs.
When I saw this I was worried. I would not worry if Ndhzenga male lions were together. Hopefully together for both they would all just not fight just roar. I worry sometimes Ndhzenga male lions are with other Kambula lionesses and three cubs separated.
I wonder if Kambula lionesses with three cubs would start getting attention from other male lions in a few months.
Yes I was saying plain camp male lions were around. I think Plain camp male lions are careful. I see, they enjoy Ximunguwe lionesses and family. They may not see it worth it when with Ximunguwe lionesses and cubs. Plain camp male lions also around Othowa, and with Tsalala lioness. Mahangenis are also around if they choose to, but they have not been around them.
The way the two male lions are walking they seem to be walking like investigating. They must not be familiar, but know there are lions. They might start doing that slowly but I am not an expert. They might start doing that slowly more investigating. They might get familiar with how many lions are around; Male lions, and lionesses. Maybe in a few months May attempt the more time the more comfortable, confidence. They might learn know they are only two Ndhzenga male lions. They might learn how many female lionesses and male lions, and may not do anything. If they keep investigating might one day attempt, but it is why maybe Ndzhengae male lions will roar and chase.
They are both two brothers and both are around the same age. Maybe nothing happens.
It is interesting. Plain camp male lions have gone and left. Plain camp male lions have also gone north, and then left. These two male lions are about the same age as Ndhzenga male lion and bit older than plain camp male lions but left and are exploring.
Wonder what makes Ndhzenga male lions stay with Kambula lionesses. I know there are many lionesses, but a lot of male lions are with many lionesses.
I’ve been thinking the same think about the kambula girls coming back into estrus and from the subadults birth in order k5 k7 and k10 all gave birth around dec 2022-Jan 2023 and k5 and k7 I think are pregnant so I assume k10 could be on the same path soon
That is interesting. That might be why plain camp male lions have been there then left and these two strong male lions. The male lion with the darkest black mane looks very strong. Also why Nukhulus may had been around?
Hopefully Ndhzenga male lions with Kambula lionesses can raise all their cubs and young sub adults.
It would be interesting to see all youn sub adults grow and new baby cubs hopefully.
(02-13-2025, 01:57 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: What do you guys think the Mantimahle sons are attempting here. They control Torchwood pride but have subadults there already.. so potentially looking to take over something? Could get bloody if they leave the north / Torchwood pride area and venture south, right, given that they are serious about looking for new females this time? With so many males in Sabi Sands. And these two males being powerful and confident.
edit: I know see that this was discussed a few hours ago in Kambula males thread already.
I doubt they are trying anything. Probably roaming around their borders, they have taken the Imbali or Imbali Breakaway pride not long ago.
02-23-2025, 06:42 PM( This post was last modified: 02-23-2025, 06:57 PM by FACR2212 )
Hello dear friends, in an heroic act I read this full topic of 50 pages! lol
This coalition is fundamental to understand the origins of important male coalitions dominant today in Sabi Sands. So I had the idea to provide ChatGPT the information of the most relevant posts and ask for a history of the Mantimahle Coalition. With some corrections and assitance, GPT managed to create this text (if you want to add relevant information or make a correction, let me know and GPT will do the job):
The Mantimahle Coalition: Conquest and Dominance in Kruger The Mantimahle lion coalition stands as a remarkable example of how to conquer and rule in the lion world. Unlike many coalitions whose influence is short-lived, the Mantimahle managed to establish themselves as a constant presence in Kruger National Park, defying the ever-changing dynamics of wildlife.
Members and Nicknames Each of the five original members had a distinctive nickname:
The Boss "Charcoal mane"
Honest Face
Orange Mane
Sharp Eyes
"5th Mantimahle" Good Boy
Origins and Lineage The Mantimahle coalition was born in 2010 within the Mazithi pride. They were the sons of the Two Old Mazithi Males and half-brothers of the Four Mazithi Males. There are speculations that the Mantimahle lions share a bloodline with the Matimba coalition, as the Matimbas were said to be the sons of the Three Old Skybed Males, who were half-brothers to the Two Old Mazithi Males. Additionally, the Old Skybed Males were the fathers of the Skybed Males, further intertwining their lineage. These five males received their name from Mantimahle Dam, where they took over their first pride in 2015. Their power and aggression quickly turned them into a dominant force in the region.
Rise to Power In 2016, they invaded Sabi Sands, particularly the southern section around Kirkmans Kamp and Lion Sands. By then, they were rumored to have killed around 35 lions, including confirmed fatalities of a Toulon male in early 2016 and a Sparta male in December of the same year. After taking over the Plains Camp pride and ousting the last Toulon male, they secured dominance over the Sand River pride, concluding their expansion in Sabi Sands.
Expansion and Control Rather than continuing further into Sabi Sands, the Mantimahle turned their focus back to Kruger. They expanded their territory along the H4-1, taking over the Nkuhlu pride, one of the largest in the park. Their control stretched from Skukuza, through Rhino Post Safari Lodge, to Lower Sabie and the S21, where they began taking over another pride after abandoning Sand River.
This extensive territorial dominance resulted in a significant number of offspring. Subadult males sired by them were confirmed in the Sand River, Plains Camp, and Nkuhlu prides. However, with the arrival of the Southern Avoca males, uncertainty loomed, as the Sand River cubs seemed to have dispersed after the new males took over the pride.
By late 2020, three members of the coalition were seen with the Nkuhlu pride along the H4-1, while the rest moved south towards the S21. It is believed that "5th Mantimahle" remained north of the H4-1, with the two S129 males positioned between the split coalition. Despite the presence of the S129 males, they posed no real threat to the Mantimahle, who had superior numbers and experience.
In 2021, the coalition was seen moving into the Renosterkoppies area along the S21, a former stronghold of the Mpondos coalition. Speculation grew that the Mpondos might soon face heavy pressure, with the Mantimahle to their north and the hungry Mjejanes to the south. By then, the coalition had split into two groups: one consisting of #1, #3, and #4, and the other including "5th Mantimahle" along with the younger males #6 and #7 from the S36/Mantimahle pride.
By January 2023, the Mantimahle territorial landscape had shifted again. In 2020, they controlled one or more prides in the S21/Nwatimhiri area with several subadults. However, by 2021, this area fell under the control of the S79 males, forcing the surviving Mantimahle to move west towards Renosterkoppies.
Decline and End of the Coalition The Mantimahle achieved something exceptional: all five members reached 10 years of age, a rare feat for lion coalitions.
Mantimahle Honest Face was the first to die in 2020 after deteriorating in condition.
Mantimahle Sharp Eyes died in 2021 or early 2022.
5th Mantimahle perished around mid-2022.
The Boss "Charcoal" and Orange Mane were last seen together with the Renosterkoppies pride in late 2022. After that, only Orange Mane was spotted, but his fate in 2023 remains uncertain.
Legacy and Descendants The Mantimahle bloodline continues through multiple generations of lions in Kruger and Sabi Sands. Some of their known descendants include:
6 Nkuhlu males
Took over the Sand River pride from the Southern Avoca males, killing some Avoca cubs.
One of the Nkuhlu males disappeared in 2024.
The remaining five form a large but unstable coalition, with fluctuating health conditions.
2 S36/Mantimahle males (born 2016)
Dark Mane Mantimahle
Ginger/Blonde Mane Mantimahle
Seen in Manyeleti with females from the Imbali and Nkuhuma prides.
Currently controlling the Torchwood pride, though they may be seeking expansion.
2 Plains Camp males (born 2017)
Currently dominate the entire western sector of Sabi Sands, ruling over multiple prides.
2 Sand River males (born 2016)
In 2025, the two S36/Mantimahle males continue to dominate the Torchwood pride. With subadults already present in their territory, speculation arises that they might be seeking a new pride to expand their influence. Given the high number of males in Sabi Sands, any move could trigger violent conflicts if they venture beyond their current range.
A Lasting Legacy
The Mantimahle coalition not only conquered vast territories but also left an indelible mark in Kruger National Park’s history. Their power, strategy, and resilience made them one of the most formidable coalitions of their time, and their lineage continues to shape the future of the lions in the region.
