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Amur Tigers
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A male tiger from Northeast China:
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Hi everyone!
I read in this forum that Amur tigers were very different between Korea, Russia, and China. I recently read about one comment. This guy name Yeon Gyu Hahn wrote interesting things about Amur tigers.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author He wrote Quote:“Siberian tigers lived in Korea, Russian Far East and Chinese Manchuria were all known as different from each other according to hunters and naturalists lived in Northeast Asia. Korean tigers were known as smaller than tigers in Chinese Manchuria and Russian Far East in general, but Korean tigers were more beautiful than other Siberian tigers.” I am curious about these past Amur tigers just like everyone. We all know that tigers and other felidae like leopards lived in Korea, but there are not much known information and record about big cats in Korea. Amur tigers lived in Korea were calling Korean tigers. I also read here that these Amur tigers lived in Korea or Korean tigers were smaller than other Amur tigers from Russia and China. I am curious about these. What made Korean tigers different from tigers in Northeast China and Russian Far East regardless they are all same Amur tiger subspecies? Why were Korean tigers more dangerous animals? What made them smaller than other Amur tigers in China and Russia? Warm temperature made them smaller? Or high human activities made them smaller because of the low numbers of prey or hunted large individuals? I think South Korea might warmer country, but I heard it's actually cold. One of my Korean friends told me that there were times when it got close to -20° C degree (-4° F) where he lived, but mainly -10 to -5° C degree (14-23° F). Nevertheless, summer in South Korea is hot and humid. North Korea seems completely different place. I know North Korea is extremely cold country because many American soldiers died from frostbite, hypothermia, and dehydration in northern Korea during the Korean War. I heard that North Korea has hellishly cold winter like Alaska and Siberia because I remember meeting American soldiers who were in the Korean War as guest speakers in my history class in high school. You can find in Google too about winter of the Korean War and pictures of dead American soldiers because of cold temperature in winter. I read that temperature was even dropped to -48° C degree (-54° F), but I remember those old soldiers said it felt even colder because wind chill temperature was -50° to -60° due to cold winds and snowstorms blowing from Siberia and Manchuria. They said machines, weapons like guns and tanks, foods, waters, and others were brittle, frozen, or not working because it was just extremely cold. They say it was so cold that everything froze and there was no smell from the dead bodies. They even had to cover their faces because strong winds and cold temperatures were destroying their skins. Bergmann's rule didn't apply to Amur tigers in these Northeast Asian countries? I can tell the size of the animals by looking at the height and size of Mongoloids (ethnics of Northeast Asia, Central Asia, East Asia, Southeast Asia, and few other parts of Asia). I am Asian American even though I won't reveal my nationality. I am mixed Asian (mixed East Asian and Southeast Asian). I was born in Asia, but I came to the USA when I was in school. Koreans are tall. I had two Korean roommates when I was in college. They were 6ft 2in (188 cm) and 6ft 3in (191 cm) barefoot. From what I've seen so far, it seems like the tallest ethnic group in Mongoloids (or should I say Asian) is Korean. Koreans and North Chinese people are the tallest and largest. I have seen only Koreans and Chinese people who are 191 to 198 cm tall (6ft 3 in to 6ft 6in) or taller. The occupation by Japan and the Korean War stunted their growth due to lack of nutrition, but everything has changed now. Among the Asians I saw who were often 6ft or taller than 6 ft (183 cm) were mostly Korean men. Among American Asians, Korean Americans also have the tallest average height. I remember I read that Koreans were relatively taller historically. They are genetically close to the Northern Asian nomadic tribes such as Mongols, Manchus, etc. I don't know how tall the minorities and tribes living in Siberia, Russia's Far East, and Northeast China are, but I assume their heights are tall too. Just like Amur tigers, Koreans and other Northeast Asians seem to have evolved to grow in size and tall height according to Bergmann's rule while living in cold, snowy environments and habitats. We all know that China built the Great Wall because of invasion of these people. China was controlled by these people many times, especially during the Yuan (Mongol Empire) and Qing Dynasties. Chinese struggled with the nomads of Central Asia and Northern Asia was because these people were physically larger and lived like warriors. Among other Asians, I have never seen anyone over 6' 3'' (190-191 cm) besides three Japanese and two Taiwanese. Chinese seems vary because China is a very large country. Chinese people have different facial features and heights depending on the region. I think that's why Northern Chinese are taller and bigger than Central Chinese and Southern Chinese because they were more mixed with Koreans and other nomads like Manchus. Japanese and Taiwanese are generally shorter and smaller than Koreans and Chinese in average. [font=Gulim, 굴림,]Perhaps Japanese and Taiwanese live on islands and are becoming smaller and shorter due to island dwarfism just like three tiger subspecies in Sumatra, Java, and Bali. Southeast Asians and South Asians like Thai, Vietnamese, Laotian, Indonesian, Burmese, and Bhutanese are definitely the shortest and smallest. The reason people think Asians are short is mainly because of Southeast Asian people. Among these people, I saw few Thai, Vietnamese, and Burmese are 6ft (183cm) or slightly taller than 6ft, but I have never seen Southeast Asian people over 6'2'' (187-188 cm) like in Korea or China. In my opinion, Southeast Asians' 5'11" (180cm) height is similar to 6'3" (190cm) for Koreans and Chinese.[/font] Korean dramas, Korean songs, and Korean idols, models, and actors are very popular in other Asian countries now, especially in Southeast Asia. Many Asian women (especially Southeast Asian women) like Korean men and want to marry them. I think another reason is that South Korea has developed very rapidly since the Korean War and has become a prosperous powerhouse. [font=Gulim, 굴림,]When I see mixed Asians like me, most of them have Korean fathers. When I see couples of other Asian ethnics and nationalities, the boyfriend or husband is mostly Korean. [/font]Especially looking at Southeast Asians, it is really hard to see a case where the mother or wife is Korean and the father or husband is Southeast Asian. This is the same for Asian Americans. As an Asian living in the USA, I know this for sure. I remember almost all Burmese, Filipino, Malaysian, Filipino, Vietnamese, Indonesian girls (even Chinese, Japanese, and Taiwanese girls) showing me Korean actors and singers and saying they wanted to marry Korean men. Another reason is that girls like taller guys, and they want their boyfriends or husbands to be taller than themselves. Interestingly, North Koreans don't seem tall, but I think that's because North Korea is a poor country. It seems that humans and tigers are somewhat the same. It’s also true that Amur tigers are larger and more powerful than other tiger subspecies, especially tiger subspecies from core region of China and Southeast Asia like South China tigers, Indochinese tigers, Malayan tigers, Javan tigers, Sumatran tigers, and Bali tigers. But the size differences between the past Amur tigers from China, Korea, and Russia are an incredible mystery. What made these Korean tigers smaller? Amur tigers in Russia, Korea, and China definitely interbreed each other because it wasn’t problems for them to cross different countries. The genes would not have been isolated. Korean tigers were also had different appearances, furs, and personalities from other Amur tigers. The fur of Korean tigers was shorter than Amur tigers in Russia and China. Peter mentioned that Korean tigers had reddish and orangish fur from scholars and books from USSR scientists. I remember he wrote that Baikov recorded that Korean tigers had a very beautiful fur. Yeon Gyu Hahn wrote the same thing too. He wrote that Korean tigers were more beautiful than other Amur tigers. But how is it possible that Amur tigers lived in Korea were more beautiful animals? I am curious what made Korean tigers more beautiful if they were really more beautiful than other Amur tigers. As for their furs, I think this can be seen from current Amur tigers in Primorsky Krai and Khabarovsk. But anyone can tell me if Amur tigers in the Land of the Leopard and Anyusky National Parks are and/or were closely related? Are they came from the same family? Or did they come from a completely different population in the 1900s? The Amur tiger population close to extinct in the 1940s-1950s. Are Amur tigers in these two different places closely related or distantly related? Amur tigers from Anyusky National Park in Khabarovsk.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Amur tigers from the Land of the Leopard National Park.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Amur tigers living in the north like Khabarovsk appear to have longer and thicker fur than Amur tigers living in the south like Primorsky Krai. But I wonder if these tigers are close ancestry or completely different families when the Amur tiger population was estimated 50 individuals in the wild about 75 years ago. Anyway, I can't imagine how different Amur tigers that lived in southern Korea in the past looked from other Amur tigers in Russia or China. I don't know any man-eating tiger stories about Amur tigers and never heard about it. I never heard that Amur tigers were once dangerous animals to humans too. I remember that I read from the animalsversesanimals forum that Korean tigers were very dangerous and fierce animals. From there, I remember Baikov wrote that Korean tigers were very violent and aggressive, and they often attacked humans, unlike other tigers. I guess his comment explains why Amur tigers in Korea were so dangerous and aggressive tigers. If Korea had the highest human activities in Northeast Asia, then obviously there were more conflicts between humans and tigers. I am curious what made Korean tigers more beautiful if they were really more beautiful than other Amur tigers. What made them a smaller size than other Amur tigers in China and Russia? Today's wild Amur tigers have any ancestors line from Korea or Chinese Manchuria? How about captive Amur tigers? We all know that Korean tigers were very distinct from other Amur tigers in Manchuria and Russian Far East. What about tigers in Northeast China and Russian Far East? They were all different too just like tigers existed in Korea? I don't know where these Amur tigers live, but I posted here because they are so beautiful. These tigers look the same as other Amur tigers in Anyusky, Lazovsky, and the Land of the Leopard National Parks. I can't distinguished them from each other.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author I attached comments written by Yeon Gyu Hahn and pictures of Amur tigers in the Land of the Leopard National Park in Primorsky Krai, Anyusky National Park in Khabarovsk and other places of Northeast Asia. I guess it is true that Korean tigers looked even more different than them. His comments gave us answers to solve riddles about Korean tigers.  (03-18-2024, 02:10 AM)Conservation Wrote: I am sorry, but I can't post anything here unless my post has to be approved by someone. I can't even edit anything. That's why I deleted and redo my post. I can't even send message to anyone here. What's wrong? We must approve the first several posts for new users. Being a wildlife forum, some folks often come in here just to cause chaos, this is one of the ways we can weed them out. You will be able to start posting normally, soon, in the meantime, Welcome to WildFact, I hope you enjoy the site, and look forward to your contributions! 
CONSERVATION
Thanks for your first contribution! We hope you'll like your stay over here. As to your questions. Some will be answered in this thread. There's quite a bit more in the thread 'On the edge of extinction - The tiger', but that'll take a lot of reading as it's a long one. Most unfortunately, it doesn't have an index. At the moment, I'm working on a series of tables with detailed information about the size of the skull of a number of tiger subspecies (referring to mainland Asia only). I've been at it for quite so time now and will post the results in the tiger extinction thread in a week or so. If you would ask me to get to a kind of summary right now, I would politely decline. The main reason is there's a lot of individual variation in tigers, both at the level of subspecies and at the level of species. A century ago, experienced hunters, regarding the size of adult wild male Indian tigers, got to a similar conclusion. Even in a specific district, the differences in size often were considerable. Not so long ago, our member 'Apex Titan' posted a part of a discussion between a former keeper and a man who most probably measured and weighed dozens of wild Amur tigers. The keeper saw adult male tigers in good shape exceed 600 pounds and the last one said exceptional wild males compare. He added an average adult wild male Amur tiger today is heavier than many (including biologists) assume. Korean tigers, also Panthera tigris altaica, were different from tigers in northwestern and northeastern China and the Russian Far East. With 'different' I'm referring to skin, ground colour, size and behaviour. There are many reasons, but they will be discussed another time.
The huge, immensely powerful, dominant 'one-eyed king' male tiger T26 from Northeast China. This tiger resembles the 'Mountain Lord' tiger from the movie: The Tiger: an old hunters tale. (Great movie by the way, a must watch film)
An impressive male from Northeast China: Male tiger from Bikin National Park (Russia):  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
A large tigress from Bikin National Park:
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A large male brown bear and a male tiger next to the same tree in North Korea:
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Male tiger and tigress in Bikin National Park.
Male:  *This image is copyright of its original author Tigress:  *This image is copyright of its original author
Tigress and Himalayan black bear:
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A magnificent male tiger from Northeast China (2022):
 *This image is copyright of its original author Another male tiger from Northeast China (2022):  *This image is copyright of its original author
Adult male tiger from Land of the Leopard National Park:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Another male tiger from Land of the Leopard National Park:  *This image is copyright of its original author
Size comparison between an adult male tiger and a well-fed adult male brown bear:
Size comparison between the male tiger 'Grom' and an adult male brown bear. In this picture (2020), the tiger Grom was a young male aged 4 years old:
 *This image is copyright of its original author Huge male tiger from Primorye:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here's a video of this massive beast: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V9LD4fKcL6M
The huge male tiger Wandashan No.1 from Northeast China.
When he was first captured and weighed as a juvenile in 2021 for attacking and smashing in a car window, he weighed 225 kg! Now as an adult, he must weigh more now: Male tiger Jack patrolling his territory in the Khabarovsk region, Russia: |
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