Plains Camp Males

[Mapokser]

@T_Ferguson @BA0701

These are injurie6 that look to be from a lion fight, claw marks, I've a hard time imagining him getting such scratches from a hunting. They were also completely fine until yesterday.

I thought it could be from mating rights but it looks too bad to be and for what it was said the smaller one has much less injuries so could he have given his brother such a hard time? I've seen him submit to Makhunga without a fight before.

If they or at least the bigger one fought another lion, it's entirely possible to get such injuries, even a lion that may be considered weaker will give a hard time in a 1v1 to the other lion. Also it might have been a fight with the Talamati pride.

Still I'm worried about the other party.

@DucoNdona I doubt NK or Tumbela would have started such a fight, they know PCM are two and are keeping a low profile, but yes it might be one of them that got attacked. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

(04-02-2023, 03:42 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @T_Ferguson @BA0701

These are injuries look to be from a lion fight, claws marks, I've a hard time imagining him getting such scratches from a hunting. They were also completely fine until yesterday.


I thought it could be from mating rights but it looks too bad to be and for what it was said the smaller one has much less injuries so could he have given his brother such a hard time? I've seen him submit to Makhunga without a fight before.

If they or at least the bigger one fought another lion, it's entirely possible to get such injuries, even a lion that may be considered weaker will give a hard time in a 1v1 to the other lion. Also it might have been a fight with the Talamati pride.

Still I'm worried about the other party.

@DucoNdona I doubt NK or Tumbela would have started such a fight, they know PCM are two and are keeping a low profile, but yes it might be one of them that got attacked.

I would’ve thought the talamati pride would be looking for a dominant male by now Reply

[BA0701]

(04-02-2023, 03:42 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @T_Ferguson @BA0701

These are injuries look to be from a lion fight, claws marks, I've a hard time imagining him getting such scratches from a hunting. They were also completely fine until yesterday.


I thought it could be from mating rights but it looks too bad to be and for what it was said the smaller one has much less injuries so could he have given his brother such a hard time? I've seen him submit to Makhunga without a fight before.

If they or at least the bigger one fought another lion, it's entirely possible to get such injuries, even a lion that may be considered weaker will give a hard time in a 1v1 to the other lion. Also it might have been a fight with the Talamati pride.

Still I'm worried about the other party.

@DucoNdona I doubt NK or Tumbela would have started such a fight, they know PCM are two and are keeping a low profile, but yes it might be one of them that got attacked.

You may well be right, until we get more information we won't know for certain. In the still image you posted, it almost appeared to me to be blood droplets on the ground beneath him, but in the video you can see that is not the case. It may also be brother on brother, as I'm reminded of the injuries NYM sustained at the paws of Nhenha, hopefully we will get some clarification soon, as right now it's anyone's guess. Reply

[Mapokser]

Even the Talamati that's mating is avoiding the PCM so who knows. Plus they may have attacked the Talamati male which triggered the females to defend him.

Anyway maybe we'll figure out what happened in the next few days. Reply

[T_Ferguson]

(04-02-2023, 02:56 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(04-02-2023, 01:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: https://www.instagram.com/reazert_general/ has shared a video of the PCM.

Makhunga with many injuries to his face, I'm not sure but he may have a very slight limp.

Any clues what may have happened? Uploader said "makhunga have some scars on his face not so much on the the other one"

*This image is copyright of its original author

While my first guess would be a hunting injury, I did notice that one of the commenters pondered if it could possibly the missing Talamati Young Male. I do wish we would get some word on that boy.

I can't remember what board now, but I thought someone said that the missing Talamati male was with the group but out of the pictures lately.  I think I also saw in the same post that they thought he had what looked like bite wounds.  That would also be days before this so....

Very curious indeed now.  If the PCM's are infighting... That would change some landscape. Reply

[BA0701]

(04-02-2023, 05:10 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:

(04-02-2023, 02:56 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(04-02-2023, 01:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: https://www.instagram.com/reazert_general/ has shared a video of the PCM.

Makhunga with many injuries to his face, I'm not sure but he may have a very slight limp.

Any clues what may have happened? Uploader said "makhunga have some scars on his face not so much on the the other one"

*This image is copyright of its original author

While my first guess would be a hunting injury, I did notice that one of the commenters pondered if it could possibly the missing Talamati Young Male. I do wish we would get some word on that boy.

I can't remember what board now, but I thought someone said that the missing Talamati male was with the group but out of the pictures lately.  I think I also saw in the same post that they thought he had what looked like bite wounds.  That would also be days before this so....

Very curious indeed now.  If the PCM's are infighting... That would change some landscape.

By in-fighting, I was referring to blows over the dinner table, or perhaps over mating rights. These boys are really tight, rarely seen without one another, so outside of those two scenarios I'm not sure I see them scuffling over much else, and certainly not if it involved conflict with another lion when these boys have proven to be inseparable. I doubt, if it was in fact caused by a brotherly skirmish, it would lead to a change in landscape. When Nhenha was partnered with NYM, he gave NYM a rather nasty gash to his cheek, as well as a large cut to his eyelid, scars he still bears today. While I am not saying this is for certain what has happened here, it does happen sometimes. Reply

[Potato]

Quite a few females around willing to mate so injuris are probably from a fight between themselfs for mating rights.

(04-02-2023, 03:42 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I thought it could be from mating rights but it looks too bad to be and for what it was said the smaller one has much less injuries so could he have given his brother such a hard time?

I could easly see other PC male giving hard time to his brother. They are bassiclly the same size. Ginger maned PC male should be able to beat his brother. Reply

[sik94]

(04-02-2023, 02:03 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:

(04-02-2023, 01:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: https://www.instagram.com/reazert_general/ has shared a video of the PCM.

Makhunga with many injuries to his face, I'm not sure but he may have a very slight limp.

Any clues what may have happened? Uploader said "makhunga have some scars on his face not so much on the the other one"

*This image is copyright of its original author

Who over there has the juice to have done that?  Hunting issue maybe?  I can't imagine what lion over that way could put any sort of whooping on one of those two boys.

Skorro or Nkuhuma could easily inflict that kind of damage 1 on 1. Reply

[Tr1x24]

Prob just fight for mating rights. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

We shall see. The other party likely got hurt aswell.
We know both males got some wounds. So if neither Skorro or Nym etc show up with scars, they likely did it to eachother.

Most likely it was over that Buffalo mentioned. Reply

[Mapokser]

Skorro Jr is fine so he was not involved. Reply

[Mwk85]

2/2 PC males 2/2 Ximhungwe lionesses. Apparently 3 of the Talamati lionesses are close by as well feeding on a zebra kill. 

Reply

[Tr1x24]

1 PC male was seen mating with 3 Talamatis in western sector.

Not sure if its sustainable for all 4 parties, to be under 1 coalition territory in this area, without having major conflicts in between each others.

Smaller prides like 1 NK breakaway and 2 Ximhungwes will prob suffer from this, if 3 (pot 5) Talamatis settle in western sector. Reply

[Mapokser]

There were the Sand River, Ximhungwe and Ravenscourt pride back in the day, with Othawas in northern Singita and a bit of Western Sector I think, somehow similar to Manghenis now.

3 different males at that time, Dzunani, Ravenscourt and Nhlanguleni.

With the current composition I don't think it's sustainable, and not only for the prides but for the PCM too. They'll be hard-pressed to successfully raise any offspring.

Their only 2 cubs are in a tough position and the cubs' aunt ( as well as her small cubs I think ) were killed by the PCM's other pride in Singita already which made them move to Western Sector to begin with.

Manghenis have also lost at least one litter of 3 due to unknown circumstances ( and I wouldn't be surprised if it was due to Birminghams at the time fleeing through Singita and coming back though there every single week, they did met Manghenis too after all ).

It's too much territory and too many prides for the PCM to deal with and honestly with Tsalala roaring in Londolozi I wouldn't be surprised if they also mate with her. Reply

[Tr1x24]

@Mapokser yep, chances that all 4 prides succesfully rise their offspring, under same coalition, in close proximity to each others, without major conflicts, are not high.

We could see that also under Majingilane rule in the same area, 2 stronger prides, Othawas and Mhangenis overpowered the weaker Ximhungwes.
In those cases, males, more often stand on the side of stronger prides.

As for PC males sustainability, i dont think this would change much for them, they need to defend same area, regardless if there is 2 or 4 prides in it. Reply