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Nkuhuma Pride
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Breakaway cubs by FJ at Idube
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (02-11-2023, 12:45 AM)Tr1x24 I have some dates and notes as well 2019Dec Wrote: NKHUMA PRIDE (02-11-2023, 12:45 AM)Tr1x24 here are some dates for younger cubs, most of info comes from MalaMala2021Apr Wrote: NKUHUMA PRIDE:
From 00:31-1:15 , who is that male bullying other pride members??
Is he Mohawk or biggest nkuhuma boy??   
I know it's very unlikely but if Mohawk can hold on or a few more months maybe his son can help him eventually ( he looks big for his age ), or the pride as a whole. They're facing 2 inexperienced enemies after all, they have the numbers to hold in if they play smart.
I remember that Talamtis once helped DM fight the Imbali male. Recently in Masai Mara much younger subs helped the dominant male chase some rivals, it's not impossible to pull this off.
Ridge nose with her son. ( Mini PC)
 *This image is copyright of its original author
Mohawk seen with subadults group last Tuesday. The young male behind him is Chela's son. It seems that he alternates his time with that group and childcare group these days, which is good for him and both groups.
Pic credit: Terri Littlemanns  *This image is copyright of its original author
(02-13-2023, 05:20 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I know it's very unlikely but if Mohawk can hold on or a few more months maybe his son can help him eventually ( he looks big for his age ), or the pride as a whole. They're facing 2 inexperienced enemies after all, they have the numbers to hold in if they play smart. There is no such thing like sons helping father to defend his territory, unless father and sons are in a coalition. Examples you provide where young males either defending themselves, pride, or maybe a carcass etc., they wont help their fathers defend or patrol his territory against intruders. That doesnt exist. Young males to defend territory, they need to already behave territorial and dominant , but they cant behave like that in territory of their father, they will be attacked and ousted by him, unless they are together in coalition (which is very rare, that territorial male accepts their sons in a coalition). Young males could help defend their pride against intruders, but they definitely wont help his father to defend territory. Mohawk is pretty much on his own.
@Tr1x24 I wasn't talking about patrolling nor anything, I very specifically said sons and prides aren't coalition partners. I was talking about Mohawk staying close to the pride and bonding with his son so when BDM meets him, the pride may back him up if he attacks.
The notion that he can keep patrolling, roaring and scent marking the territory as a full dominant male is impossible, I'm barely talking about holding the line for longer until his cubs have a better chance to make it. Besides the oldest male is past the time of getting chased off, only reason he wasn't is because Mohawk is in such a weak position that he has many more urgent issues than kicking out his son. Same happened with DM and many other lions, sons will be chased off much earlier by a strong and solid coalition, a strong and stable coalition won't allow 4yo sons to stay, but a weak and vulnerable coalition will neglect this job as they will be much more worried in keeping the thin hold on their territory and see chasing out a son as unnecessary conflict, as well as seeing them as potential assets. Each month that passes, the more potentially useful the oldest male will be to Mohawk.  (02-13-2023, 09:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 I wasn't talking about patrolling nor anything, I very specifically said sons and prides aren't coalition partners. I was talking about Mohawk staying close to the pride and bonding with his son so when BDM meets him, the pride may back him up if he attacks. No offense but I don’t think you have the faintest notion how the dynamics of the Nkuhuma pride work. The subadults are a splinter group that are welcome to wander their father’s territory because they are family and don’t need to be pushed out when they are still submissive and staying out of the way. The youngest son is barely 3 years old and nowhere ready to be nomadic. Using your logic all these males would have been pushed out last year and left to die. Maybe there are coalitions like that but they certainly aren’t successful. Even the Kambula young were allowed to stay as long as their fathers were in power because they splintered off and minded their own business. Using your logic, the Ross males are the weakest collation know to man because they allowed over a DOZEN offspring of the Giraffe males to grow up in their territory and many times they were sighted right alongside the Ross males cubs! In that case, yes they didn’t do their duty but it also goes to show coalitions don’t all behave the same way. And showing tolerance to your own offspring is actually a good trait to ensure the survival of the next generation. Ridge Noses son isn’t going to team up with Mohawk. Their relationship isn’t close like dark mane’s was with the Talamatis. Mohawk will hold the pride for as long as he can, on his own, as he has done for three months since Blondie died. His daughters are of age to mate with new males and when that time comes he will hand the baton off to new males, and as a still healthy 10 year old male move on. And his sons/nephews will go off on their own too, not likely with Mohawk though.
@Tr1x24 I've no interest in who claims the land "officially", I wasn't talking about that, but in keeping the cubs alive and the pride under Mohawk's control, males and prides have done that multiple times. Notch managed to live like that and keep his cubs alive with the help of the pride for 2 years until they were successfully ousted by the coalition of 3 who killed Notch's partner 2 years earlier.
Rollercoaster male did the same for years too against the 2 Mapogo, 2 WSM did that against 2 Split Rock males and so on. Mohawk may not be able to be a full territorial male anymore, but he might be able to stick to his pride, keep a low profile and help raising more offsprings before he inevitably loses ownership over the pride. Btw even while having his limp and losing some females, DM was holding to his pride, if not for how big his pride was and especially 2 adult sons, he'd have been kicked out or killed by S8 male way before the buffalo finished him off.
@SMK350
No offense too, but please re-read what I said. When did I say the youngest male was at an age to get kicked out? I was talking about the oldest male being old enough to. Again, where did I say the oldest male would team up with Mohawk? I said it was very unlikely he could hold on like this and if he was smart he would stick to the pride ans bond with his son, increasing his chances slightly. I'm dumbfounded how you came to the conclusion that according to my logic the males would be chased off last year and left to die. Are they 4yo? No? Then did you missed how I said strong coalitions don't allow 4yo sons to stay in the territory? Was I talking about 2yo? No, it was 4. Also don't remember implying showing tolerance to the offsprings is a bad thing. Show me lots of strong, stable coalitions not under threat, with a bright future ahead not kicking out 4yo sons. There may be some exceptions, but it's not the norm, everywhere you'll read the same thing: "At around two to three years old, young males leave the pride and attempt to take over another male's pride." https://education.nationalgeographic.org...-out-pride "But when male lions begin to reach sexual maturity around age 2, the older males within the pride kick them out, Dereck said." https://www.livescience.com/41572-male-l...vival.html |
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