Lions of Sabi Sands

[Duco Ndona]

I think giving sources or info on how information was obtained would always be a good idea. Even if its something like Ranger that wishes to be remain unnamed.
That way we know what's going on. 

Honestly, right now this whole mess is largely X described this and Y reported that. It would help if we got some actually pictures or official reports to clear up some contradictions.

I am especially curious about those reports of wounds on the N'was.
They sound way to severe to be just from fighting over mates. That's usually just some superficial scratches.
But if they didn't fight the Avoca's. Then who did they fight? Some random nomadic males? Reply

[T I N O]

(11-10-2021, 10:17 PM)sik94 Wrote:

(11-10-2021, 10:08 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(11-10-2021, 09:51 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(11-10-2021, 08:23 PM)Slayerd Wrote:

(11-10-2021, 06:42 PM)Gijima Wrote: Good to get clarification: 

-Bboys were long gone on Sunday and not even in the area or roaring by Sunday night… 
- N Avocas answered the call and it looks like dragged the N’Ws all the way to MM main camp
- I’m sure the Avocas then wisely moved off (no physical fight happened or something minor since they have no injuries) when the N’Ws arrived in Mala Mala
- N’W are now fully focused on the females. I don’t think they’ll cross the sand river IMO and just go up and down that area in Mala Mala.

I already said that a ranger said the Bboys (one or both) were roaring on their western border during the Nwaswitshaka push. Was probably Nhenha. Weird thing is Londolozi is using Nhenha's roar in the video. Nhenha has a unique roar presumably because he hurt his vocal cords when he was younger. His roar has a squeak before he belts. Probably just an effect for the video. So they probably weren't "long gone" but it is safe to assume that they've been spending less time on Londozi which prompted the Nwaswitshaka to push. It was yesterday that it was reported they were on a Buffalo Carcass east of their territory and that's probably where Londolozi got their information. Rangers didn't know where the Bboys were today. But if Tinyo was at a Buffalo carcass east of their territory, it would last him and the 3 lionesses and cubs a few days to eat off that. Dunno what Nhenha was doing but it's safe to say from both Timbevati and I that he was the one roaring on the border.

I don't know why "long gone" is controversial. There is a good timeline of the events that @Tr1x24  posted in the N'W thread using official, verified reports. 

If Tinyo was near the Kruger boundary on Sunday that is way outside his territory and far from the action that unfolded Mon-Wed. I've only seen one video of Nhenha and he was roaring over the weekend. I don't know anything about them being on a carcass. Being is eastern Mala Mala near the boundary is not at all relevant to the action that's going on on the other side of the Sand River between Avocas and N'W, and that's all I meant. 

Also I would like to wait for official reports because some of the stuff posted here, like "bloody footprints leading north" was wrong. That's not to say people are purposely misleading but things are changing at a rapid pace and we need to wait for actual verified facts. Someone mentioned naming sources and I get it-- sometimes source don't want to be named-- but that also means we can't trust every unnamed source either because there's no way for  us to fact check what's being shared.

It's information directly from a ranger so... It isn't false. That's just what the Mala Mala rangers saw. Who know what bloody tracks it was. Which is why I said it's safe to assume to Avocas were pushed back. The Nwaswitshaka do have wounds and we didn't exactly know where those came from. The reason long gone is controversial is because a Gowrie Male was roaring west of the property and one was seen east of their territory on a Buffalo kill. You saying that isn't close to their territory is also false because Bboys have been seen multiple times in that area on carcasses. Such as Nhenha and the Kambula on a giraffe carcass last year.

Weren't the Avocas seen without any scratches or signs of a fight after everything unfolded? I don't think the injuries on the N'ws came from an altercations with the Avocas, probably fighting each other over females.

Yes, From what I heard. The Avocas didn't had any injuries. And 3 N'waswitshaka males were with a Kambula lioness at MalaMala today Reply

[Tr1x24]

Guys calm down. 

Nhenha roaring in MalaMala doesnt matter, as that happened when N'ws and Avocas already "engaged" on Sunday evening in Londolozi, as N'ws already picked up scents and roars from Avocas, its not like they will just turn and go for Nhenha immidiately.. 

Male lions roar every night, so Nhenha roaring is pretty normal, Tinyo at that time was confirmed to be far east. 

As Londolozi said, Bboys not being present in Londolozi recently means that N'ws couldn't pick up their scent in Londolozi, yet they came face to face with Avocas, this was actually "big brain" move from Bboys or maybe just coincidence, either way, better for them. 

Idk why is this even discussion.

For "unclear" stuff, only unclear thing is that "blood track" going north, which there is 0 evidence that it comes from lions, theres other animals there.. 

If Avocas where completely healthy, then N'ws didn't fight them, yet they fight each others for mating rights. 

Amahle was not limping at night when he was after Wide Nose and Kambula female, he was limping after at morning, also N'ws would definitely not be after female if N. Avocas where still in the area.. 

Bboys are nowhere in the picture for now, reports are that they are further east, so they are irrelevant for now. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(11-10-2021, 10:26 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I am especially curious about those reports of wounds on the N'was.
They sound way to severe to be just from fighting over mates. That's usually just some superficial scratches.
But if they didn't fight the Avoca's. Then who did they fight? Some random nomadic males?

Did you see Nwaswitshakas fighting over kill few months ago? These guys dont spare each others, that was over a kill, now imagen 1 female on 4 males. 

Fights for mating rights can be really intense. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Yes, but not to the point of limping, mauled backs and leaving bloodied tracks in 3 out of 4 lions. Otherwise they would have been goners a long time ago if they did that constantly.
More likely either some poor wandering animal, lion or otherwise winds up spotted with wounds. Or the wounds turn out to be not as bad as initially reported.  
Most likely the later. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(11-10-2021, 11:58 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Yes, but not to the point of limping, mauled backs and leaving bloodied tracks in 3 out of 4 lions. Otherwise they would have been goners a long time ago if they did that constantly.
More likely either some poor wandering animal, lion or otherwise winds up spotted with wounds. Or the wounds turn out to be not as bad as initially reported.  
Most likely the later.

I think you exaggerate those injuries, Orange Eyes is completely fine, small cut :

*This image is copyright of its original author

Wide Nose also has only small cut on his face:

*This image is copyright of its original author

And Amahle got biten on his pawn, and thats the reason he is limping, as we can see the bite here:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Looks like normal injuries from fight for female, dont know who said about mauled back, but photographer who took these pictures didn't mentioned it, he only said 1 male limping.

Anyway, Gerry Van Der Walt said he will do a podcast on this in few days, so we will know exactly what happened, hopefully. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Like I said. Those reports would have to be incorrect if no fight took place.

Its good to finally see some photos rather than reports.. Reply

[Tr1x24]

Mohawk today at MalaMala :

Photo Credits : Gerry Van Der Walt

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Apparently things calmed down today, after few days of madness. Reply

[Mdz123]

I dont think things are over yet. The N’was males are with the cubless Kambula female and if she decides to follow the males into their territory then the Styx pride wont welcome her. And she needs to return to her pride eventually. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Aslong she is willing to mate the Nwaswitshakas likely won't leave her alone. So that isnt much of an issue. Reply

[T I N O]

Update: We had the Nkuhuma subs and 2 females in camp at Arathusa today but no sign of the avocas.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[kobe8jf1234]

(10-07-2021, 03:23 PM)Mdz123 Wrote:

(10-07-2021, 11:54 AM)Hairy tummy Wrote:

(10-07-2021, 11:42 AM)lionuk Wrote: A beautiful portrait of Dark Mane and one of Talamati's subadult males. They clearly have a great affection for each other. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

He looks just like his father

he should try stick with 3 brothers better chance for survival 

And that subadult is also only slightly shorter then DM, and he is only 3 years old, so he will become a pretty big lion in the future, maybe surpassing DM’s size Reply

[T I N O]

(11-11-2021, 06:03 PM)kobe8jf1234 Wrote:

(10-07-2021, 03:23 PM)Mdz123 Wrote:

(10-07-2021, 11:54 AM)Hairy tummy Wrote:

(10-07-2021, 11:42 AM)lionuk Wrote: A beautiful portrait of Dark Mane and one of Talamati's subadult males. They clearly have a great affection for each other. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

He looks just like his father

he should try stick with 3 brothers better chance for survival 

And that subadult is also only slightly shorter then DM, and he is only 3 years old, so he will become a pretty big lion in the future, maybe surpassing DM’s size

Talamati sub-adults males are going to be big males. Definitely, It will be interesting follow their nomadic journey in the next years. Possibly, the new force in Manyeleti or Northern Sabi Sands. Who knows! Reply

[Hairy tummy]

There is some impressive looking sub adults around SS at the minute. Looking forward to seeing how things pan out. Wish them all well in the future Reply

[T I N O]

Update: 1 Avoca and 3 Nkuhuma females with 7 cubs in the north no enjuries that were seen Reply