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Size comparisons
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Megalodon vs Livyatan, Largest dimensions size comparison
Megalodon ~ 20 meters Livyatan ~ 17.5 meters *This image is copyright of its original author I got the amazing model of the killer sperm whale from Paleoarteymas, on instagram
Great White Shark (Female) vs Killer Whale (Male) made by me
Average GWS : 5.2 meters Orca : 7 meters Max GWS : 6.2 meters (largest reliable) Orca : 10.05 meters *This image is copyright of its original author
Persian male leopard and wild boar
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author hayat_ vahsh_mazandaran
Leopard and Smilodon fatalis at the National Museum of Scotland
 *This image is copyright of its original author By atypical.platypus
I've joined Theropoda discord server with the great honor to meet Franoys and other skeletal artists among with enthusiasts of any dinosaurs, I'm glad to share ACTUAL data.
My latest size comparison representing the two official largest REALIABLE (not speculative) specimens of Tyrannosaurs rex (Sue) and Giganotosaurus carolinii (holotype). Measurements from RandomDinos and Franoys *This image is copyright of its original author These comparisons could become outdated in the exact moment the new paper for Scotty's measurements and GDI will be released. If Scotty will be estimated to be larger than Sue, I'll have to delete and edit these comparison by replacing Sue with Scotty. The size estimates for MUCPV-95 put it at 8.3 tons but it's highly fragmentary so I'm not using it until we get a proper skeleton. I might use it in comparison in the future. But for now, I only use complete and reliable estimates. Not speculation.
Now a comparison between Sue (the largest current tyrannosaurus, possibly not in the future) and the largest latest estimated dimension of Spinosaurus Aegyptiacus.
*This image is copyright of its original author Better skull comparison *This image is copyright of its original author This comparison couldn't be more clear than this, especially when comparing skull width and top view that shows perfectly the difference in body mass between the two theropods. It's more than clear here how spinosaurus doesn't neither match, rival, or surpass tyrannosaurus’ bone thickness, robustness and size.
The bulkness and size of some gators is just astonishing
*This image is copyright of its original author
4.95 meters long niloticus
*This image is copyright of its original author
The size of Gustave compared to female hippos, he's (or was) really gigantic
*This image is copyright of its original author A beached bull killer whale, the strongest living wild predator. *This image is copyright of its original author
Two big boys; I used Guate's data collection for Indian gaurs and de Jong's data on wood bisons (which is the only set that gives an average shoulder height for male wood bisons as far as I know):
 *This image is copyright of its original author
Second largest toothed whale vs largest land predator
Largest current tyrannosaurus skull (Sue, but Scotty is about to replace her soon) compared to the only Livyatan skull we have. Made by me *This image is copyright of its original author
While I have already had this discussion with LoveAnimals some pages back, I think it wouldn't hurt to let those who have not seen that discussion that there's no reason to think T. rex was the largest known land predator with current data. Carcharodontosaurus and both species of Giganotosaurus (as well as Spinosaurus, but I don't know how much it counts as 'land') were all much bigger with current data.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-carchar...#pid126470 https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-giganot...#pid119815 https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-carnivo...#pid124384 https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-spinosa...#pid147514 https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tyranno...#pid117157 https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tyranno...#pid122676 I have also had this discussion with GuateGojira a while back, which contains a convenient pre written explanation for all of the above: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tyranno...#pid129883 (11-18-2021, 12:37 AM)DinoFan83 Wrote: While I have already had this discussion with LoveAnimals some pages back, I think it wouldn't hurt to let those who have not seen that discussion that there's no reason to think T. rex was the largest known land predator with current data. Carcharodontosaurus and both species of Giganotosaurus (as well as Spinosaurus, but I don't know how much it counts as 'land') were all much bigger with current data. You were talking to a different person, and not in the physical and concrete sense, but from the point of view of conviction. And that person is no longer convinced of the nonsense you say immediately after joining the theropoda discord server with reasonable people where there is also the one and only Franoys who told me your data and claims aren't accurate. Regarding your "data" and your so called work, I'm referring to the "size comparisons" showing 11-ton Giganotosaurus and 10 ton Carcharodontosaurus where you use no source or evidence proving them to be estimated at such gigantic size. Not even tyrannosaurs reaches that weight on the estimated maximum size, although their sample size is quite small and we already have two specimens pushing 10 tons with Sue currently being the largest at 9.7 tons. Scotty is estimated to be bigger, at 10.4 tons with a 12.46-50+ meters total length but you already know I won't consider it until a proper official document is released. And spoilers, Scott's people are doing it. Also, I'm not very into in the Carcharodontosaurus topic as the material is too less to achieve proper body proportions of an average Carcharodontosaurus size and the sample size is very small, so I'm not talking about Carcha, although I have seen an estimate on Theropoda that puts it in a total body length as shorter and by consequence smaller than the Giganotosaurus holotype MUCPV-CH1. So, if Giganotosaurus is bigger than Carcharodontosaurus based on current material, how can the shark-toothed lizard (sign I know about you also on reddit) outsize Tyrannosaurus, which is larger than Giganotosaurus ? (Note : if we count just the holotype giganotosaurus, Mapusaurus is proportionally bulkier and weighs more at same length) How can it? It can't until we find adequate evidence of the existence of a massive outlier over 13 meters long and with bone density and thickness that exceeds the tyrannosaurus rex, that's statistics. Unfortunately for you, this Carcharodontosaurus has not been discovered yet and probably never existed. Wrong is also any other claim speculating a 13+ m long theropod since the largest current Carcharodontosaurid ever recorded (Giganotosaurus Paratype) does not even reach 13 meters, which is about 12.7 meters long as it has been estimated to be 2.2% larger than the holotype in that based on that beautiful skeletal made by Dan which is currently the most accurate skeletal reconstruction of Giganotosaurus Carolinii among with Franoys. *This image is copyright of its original author So any estimated 13 - 14 m Carcharodontosaurus sounds as a hilarious claim based on thin air. Also as regards Giganotosaurus Carolinii, speaking of holotype, the GDI made by RandomDinos as regards the models made by Dan estimates the body mass of the massive theropod at 7.6 tons or 7600 kg with measurements that give a 1.53 meters long skull. , a hip height of approximately 3.50 - 3.53 meters and an estimated total length along the centra between 12.25 - 12.40 meters regarding the study. For comparison, again taking RandomDinos into consideration, his Sue model is estimated at 9.7 tons of body mass with a skull length of 1.52m, a skull width of 94.5cm (source Franoys here) , a hip height of approximately 3.8 meters and a total body length along the center between 12.30 - 12.39 meters. *This image is copyright of its original author I already posted their comparison 2 days ago and you have seen it, but this is just the size display. I just made the top view and I will resize them to a similar length. Result? Giganotosaurus doesn't look nearly as bulky or massive as tyrannosaurus *This image is copyright of its original author So basically Sue is about 2.1 tons heavier, around 30 cm taller at the hip (scaled at the highest point of the neck Sue is about 4.10 meters tall and with flesh added based on randomdino's model I used is about 4.33 meters tall whereas MUCPV-CH1 is in the 3.65-3.70+m range so at the head the height difference is even higher than the hip one) than giganotosaurus holotype. The impressive thing is that even if we take in consideration Giganotosaurus paratype MUCPv-95 we would get a theropod 2.2% larger than the holotype and applying the +2.2% update on the holotype we get a 12.7 meters long, 3.60 m tall at the hip Giganotosaurus with an estimated body mass of 8.3 tons based on the GDI RandomDinos made on Dan's skeletal which is still not as tall and not as heavy as Sue, 'cause she still outsizes Giganotosaurus by more than a ton. The difference is even more than clear when you look at their skull size comparison from above. Sue 1.52 compared to MUCPv-Ch1 1.53 m long skull (Credits to vitamine imagination here) *This image is copyright of its original author And as everyone has already told to you including Guate, The Carcharodontosaurids have developed more elongated and slender body structures with skulls and bones that are definitely narrower and less dense and thick as opposed to Tyrannosaurus; for this reason they cannot attain the size and robustness of Tyrannosaurs since their slenderer built does not categorize them to reach that amount of tonnage. That's logical and whoever has doubts with this has to show massive evidence to prove the initial statement is wrong Tyrannosaurus has a wider body as the dorsal view speaks clear; therefore a larger body girth gives no doubts in stating that Tyrannosaurus is the more heavily built animal among all extant theropod since there's no other one animal that has demonstrated to rival its morphological features. Giganotosaurus doesn't only have a slightly smaller frame by being shorter at hip height and visually slenderer but also lacks the bone thickness and robustness of Tyrannosaurs (being stated by numerous paleontologists and paleoartists from Scott Hartman to Franoys) so the one and only opinion that it can rival or even surpass tyrannosaurus in size exist only for you other than those old dinosaur books for children that estimate Giganotosaurus at over 6 meters tall and 15 meter long. The only thing Giganotosaurus exceeds tyrannosaurus is arm size and total body length. Also, I have previously posted a comparison that represents the dorsal view of both the skull of the larger spinosaurus estimated at 1.58m and Tyrannosaurus Sue at 1.52cm. Although spinosaurus surpasses tyrannosaurus in length, looking from above you can perfectly understand how incomparable these animals are and the gap of difference between the built of both animals is even greater than with Giganotosaurus *This image is copyright of its original author The very thin and narrow skull of the river monster doesn't even rival the wide cheekbones of the tyrant lizard and as for their bite force spinosaurus is estimated to be about 1.2 tons while the average Tyrannosaurus (taking Sue and Scotty out) would be around 6 tons, an evident and abyssal difference. Here we are not only doing a favor to Spinosaurus by comparing it to Tyrannosaurus but we're doing a huge disrespect to Rex for comparing an animal with a much lighter and slenderer body built and bones not as thick or as dense to it. Also by looking at Sue's 12th dorsal rib compared to Spinosaurus' one, you can see even more clearly how incomparable they are in terms of body mass and body width. *This image is copyright of its original author It's funny how I'm probably wasting my time making comparisons between animals that there is no comparison or point in common between them except for you, since you're just trying to inflate and make these animals bigger than they really are just because you have this perpetual hatred of the one who is confirmed to be the largest terrestrial predator ever discovered so far. This is WILDFACT, not monster resurrected Just imagine comparing the bodymass amount of tyrannosaurus Rex with the amount of bodymass of a Spinosaurus, it would be like comparing a Sub-Saharan cheetah to an aberdare - north Iranian leopard by stating that the cheetah is larger. Just to make you understand how wrong the claim would sound. *This image is copyright of its original author Compared to *This image is copyright of its original author You rely yourself on your self-made comparisons which take in consideration probably no real measurements other than visual impression to try to discredit the amount work people like Franoys, RandomDinos and Scott Hartman do. Your isometric scaling based of skeletal reconstructions that you edited and warped multiple times, messing up their original figures off using very fragmentary specimens. Anyone educated in dinosaurs or size estimates in general with animals, will know that an almost fully preserved t-rex skeleton is better than some single jaw or a fragmentary bone remain (even then, Sue still outweighs Giganotosaurus paratype by around 1.4 Tons and if Scotty will be confirmed at 10.4 tons the gap will increase to 2.1 tons) . Ah and have you heard the latest news? The jaw fragment estimated to belong to the largest spinosaurus ever estimated at around 14.43 meters may NOT belong to a spinosaurus aegyptiacus! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j-ERQ0f...1VLmo/view If this is true, the largest confirmed adult spinosaurus would be the holotype which is just 11.6 meters long - even shorter than Sue! Just imagine if that were to be true, what would become of your fanciful 14-ton spinosaurus? It would be depressing for you. And what about all the random threads you just linked to desperately try to show a reliable source which is nothing more than threads created by you filled up with all the misinformation that you've been publishing even on here? I've read through the threads you linked (reason why it took me 2 days approximately to reply) and I couldn't find any reasonable data for the other theropods that would take the top spot of TRex. Why is this? Because incredibly in all those 5-7 links you sent, none contained evidence involving theses elaborated after careful studies done by qualified contemporary scientists. This is only because the only source you use is your personal opinion (powerfully influenced by the obsessive hatred of the Tyrannosaurus). Also if you think Frans work is wrong (Fran his basically a full fledged paleontologist at this point) then why don't you just message him, tell him face to face all the things you accuse him of and send then to us the screenshots of full conversation? There is nothing stopping you and Fran can explain to you why his work is the way it is. Other news, the Tyrannosaurus Holotype you and GAT tried to downsize from its inizial GDI made by Franoys, is actually estimated to be even heavier than that! About 7.9 tons which is basically 8 tons, so not only tyrannosaurus Holotype is heavier than Giganotosaurus Holotype, but just 350+ kg lighter than the largest Giganotosaurus ever estimated. Not to count all the fragmentary specimens (around 5) that can possibly rival or even exceed in size Sue. You do not respect the work done here by people that are trying their best to be as accurate as possible. You know science works on objectivity and not subjectivity right? You don't act arrogant like you're the one who knows everything and the others are just wrong. If you were to walk into a university dealing palaeontology, you'd understand how science would actually work. This information from a person is enough that I would never let him log into a server where we all share the love, the OBJECTIVE information and above all the respect for all animals, no exceptions. Considering that I am a huge enthusiast of the leopard if I reasoned like you I should hate cougars, jaguars, lions but I would never know how to do it because on the contrary you I love all animals (my name LoveAnimals is evident) and I do not put my favorite animal at a higher level than a stronger animal just because I personally think it's cooler compared to the other one who I wrongly consider "overrated" . Inflating your favorite animal in an inaccurate way is probably a sign you don't like it for what it really is, so you're being disrespectul also to your own favorite animal My goal is just to prevent external people who join this site to be convinced by the amount of misinformation that you use to convince people, thing you almost did to me aswell.
Sorry, I'm not going to be responding to attacks and irrelevant material.
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