There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
09-08-2015, 12:05 AM( This post was last modified: 09-08-2015, 12:06 AM by sanjay )
Here is a small video in which amur tiger is looking for black bears (cubs) in the big hole of the tree's trunk at some height.
This is another video in which black bear family hiding in the same trunk hole as described above (different timing for these 2 videos and different angle)
Credit to: Amur Far East Russia
Location: Khabarovsk Region
09-15-2015, 09:05 AM( This post was last modified: 09-15-2015, 09:26 AM by GuateGojira )
The size of the Caspian tiger (Panthera tigris virgata):
After searching data on the size of the tiger subspecies/populations, I found very few reliable measurements, and most of them is impossible to know if they were taken over curves, between pegs or from skins! Only the scientific records are known to be measured in a straight line with the tape stretch along the body, which is very similar to "between pegs" measurements.
At this moment, the only subspecies which we have several reliable measurements is that if India/Nepal, and in second place the Amur tiger (mostly from the Siberian Tiger Project). Following the decreasing in size, I choose the Caspian tiger for my next comparison (presented here), but take in count that I follow the study of Driscoll et al. (2009) for the taxonomy, which in this case invalidate the use of "altaica" and postulate "virgata" as is older. Also, the genetic evidence suggest that all the Caspian and Amur tigers are of the same subspecies with only minor differences like the skin patter, color and shorter snout, check the image:
*This image is copyright of its original author
In this case, I present the two populations of the same subspecies, just like the case of the Southern African lion. As there is not a single picture of a male Caspian tiger from the side view, I modified the captive female in order to match a male specimen. Hard work, but I think it match very well. I also add the skull size just to show the size differences. Take in count that new studies from Wilting et al. (2015) could summarize all the mainland populations into a single subspecies (Panthera tigris tigris), however the population of Caspian-Amur tigers are still a different sub-clade that should be managed as a different "Management Unit". Check that the similarity in size depend of the few measurements. Based in the skull lengths, I guess that the Caspian tigers where somewhat smaller than the Indian tigers and closer to the Sub-Saharan African lions at 185 cm in head-body, but it is only my guess.
In the issue of measurements, Heptner & Sludskii (1992) present 90% of the measurements available, but the problem is that some are from skins, other from mounted specimens and only very few from animals measured "in the flesh". From all the specimens, only three males and three females seems to be from animals "accurately measured" from the hunted animals. Although I don't think that they were measured "between pegs", they surely were not exaggerated over the curves and represent a fair size for the real animals. However, Mazák seems to believe that these animals were actually measured between pegs as they are specimens from Museums and he included them in his range (oh yes, I found all the specimens from where he get his range of the Caspian tigers!). Apart from them, Mazák presents a male of 198 cm in head-body and a weight of 170 kg. The total length of this male match with the figure or 295 cm (tail of 33%), which suggest that this is the largest male from the Caspian region that Mazák accepted as reliable. So, the minimum and maximum males of 260 and 295 cm and the two females of 240 and 260 cm are real and are represented for real animals (figures are approximated by Mazák). The weight of 240 kg came with a male of 284 cm, it is not described if its from head-body, from a skin, or a total length, it inclusion in the average don't change the result at all. On the weights issue, the female of 85 kg came from a captive specimen, so I exclude her from the range.
There is one specimen of 248.5 cm in total length and 132 kg. Guggisberg believed that it was a male, and Slaght et al. (2005) followed him, however, Mazák (1981) was more logic and classified it as a female, based in the low weight and the small size (head-body of 172 cm, clearly a female).
Please, don't forget that the largest female Amur tiger skull (329.9 GLS & 222 mm ZW) is not included here, as it was reported until 2004 by J. H. Mazák. So, the average for the female Amur tigers could be closer to 300 mm.
Well, enjoy the image, doubts-comments-observations are welcomed.
(09-18-2015, 12:24 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Igor and his friend. Photos are misleading, Igor is much bigger than this 2yo kruger lion.
He looks quite robust to me, I can't believe he is 220kg, he must be a massive cat since he looks like he will be putting on quite a bit of weight still to come.
(09-18-2015, 12:24 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Igor and his friend. Photos are misleading, Igor is much bigger than this 2yo kruger lion.
He looks quite robust to me, I can't believe he is 220kg, he must be a massive cat since he looks like he will be putting on quite a bit of weight still to come.
Again, photos are misleading. Igor has big head, strong front legs, but his body is almost nothing (in relation to his impressive height and lenght). He is not underfed. He is perfectly fit and active. Breeder told me that he behaves like a smi-wild tiger.
BTW in the indian and indochinese tigers thread I posted photo of bengal tiger Paris, who is of similar weight (7yo, Igor is only 3yo). Igor is definitely longer and probably taller (or about the same). Paris is more robust. Fight between these two would be unpredictable but probably very fierce, because both are quite agressive. 2years ago Paris attacked a breeder (he was playing with him like a cat with mouse, fortunately he didnt kill him), then he escaped into the visitors area (in the morning - no visitors yet) and he saw lion and lioness. For about 1 hour he tried to somehow attack the lions (before he was darted).
They had similar problems with Igor in the past. In the lion encolure there were adult "barbary" lions (male+female) and Igor was always trying to somehow attack them. The lions had to be moved to a different enclosure (and later the lion was killed by the lioness) and new lions (subadult white kruger couple) arrived. Interestingly Igor has no problem with these white lions...they are really friendly to each other...
(09-18-2015, 02:15 AM)Pckts Wrote: Oh yes, I see that now.
What a beautiful specimen.
TFS
I´d say Igor is combination of strenght and agility. I saw him in a friendly "fight" with his tigress and I was amazed how agile he is (despite his size).
This is the female (they have 2 sons...about 2-3 months old).
