Ape Strength: Myth vs Reality

[Stripedlion2]

(09-09-2020, 12:17 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-08-2020, 11:47 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:

(09-08-2020, 11:23 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-08-2020, 10:14 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:

(09-08-2020, 11:07 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(09-08-2020, 07:40 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote:

(04-12-2019, 11:04 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-12-2019, 06:26 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote:

(03-15-2019, 03:38 PM)brobear Wrote: https://www.junsanatomy.com/   
  

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That gorilla model is bulkier than the human model. Even chimps and baboons are deadly opponents for man what more a gorilla.

I think, that there is no doubt, that average gorilla is bulkier than average human. Then again we have really strong men weighing also 150-180 kg, compared to them it would be totally different situation.
But this thread was created in hope to find out if anyone have something what would give information about it, that what gorilla really is able to for instance lift or drag. So far nothing such, which would indicate, that gorilla would be something extraordinary compared to other strong animals, for example tigers, lions, bears etc. Some researches even makes it look like, that gorilla might be considerably weaker when comparing muscle fiber test results compared to big cats.... 

There is a lot of speculation always, but does anyone have anything concrete which haven´t been already countless times in different forums?

I would like to see that. A model scale of a strongman compared to an average or large gorilla . Of course the strongmen have the height advantage. Usually strongmen are around 6’2-6’8 sometimes even taller . The average gorilla is like 5’6-5’9 . It would be interesting to see a 6’0-6’6 gorilla compared to someone like hafthor or Brian Shaw( 190-206kg) . Maybe guate can make a comparison:).

Gorillas are naturally very robust. Shorter but then again naturally weighing 150-200 kg while these strongmen have to use steroids etc. to get there. I think, that what comes to strength there aren´t big differences between strongest strongmen and gorillas in it, that how much they could lift etc. But while these strongmen are in that condition relatively clumsy, gorillas are fast and agile with stronger bone structure etc. I assume, that gorillas are a bit stronger too, even though differences are smaller than many think. But overall simply physically superior, I wouldn´t put any man with bear hands in the same cage with an angry gorilla, no matter if some "Hafthor" or "Bruce Lee", it would be too cruel for people :)

Yea gorillas run 20-25 mph and I don’t know how fast strongmen run probably not over 20mph . But it would be interesting to see a large male orangutan compared to a large gorilla and a strongman. Gorillas are built bulky to keep predators away and they’re mostly herbivores. They only have one predator and that’s the leopard which  range of 40-80kg but the largest males reach around 90-100kg , they mostly hunt young ones but even males can be killed.

I didn´t mean running speed at all. I mean how they move overall.

Like in this video, in which two gorillas are slapping each others a bit. Could you imagine strongmen move their 150-200 kg bodies making it look so effortless. I can´t.

Or if you compare to even bigger boys, like these bears. 

They look big and clumsy, but when they go for it, their movements are so quick. That kind of mixture of tremendous strength combined to such speed is impressive. Without a gun any strongman would be like a child in hands of an adult. If those two, Hafthor and... Hall (wasn´t it him?) have that boxing fight some day, it will be comical to compare to these animals, when looking at how slow they will be in their movements.

Oh well yea of course they will be faster in movement and reaction time they’re wild animals . Bears are surprisingly  nimble and fast . Didn’t one grizzly clock in at 40 mph ?  But yeah If you’re a human you don’t want to fight a gorilla. Even a 150 pound alpha chimp paid the price of messing with an angry silverback .

Well a chimp naturally is no match for a gorilla, no matter if alpha, beta or delta etc. Brown bears can run approximately 65 kph so yes, 40 mph is what they can do. They are able to outrun moose in the woods when they are hunting. At least if not trying to do it just before hibernation in heaviest possible condition. But I don´t write more about bears here, they have own threads if interest to discuss about them more.

What comes to gorillas and how strong they are, it´s an interesting question. Real and solid information is difficult to find, many kind of speculations there. I don´t think that they have more strength really than some other wild animal with same weight and muscle mass.

Gorillas are no doubt strong, but how strong? Are gorillas stronger than large jaguars or lion and tigers? 
Gorillas have always been interesting to us because they have a lot in common with us but they’re incredibly strong and have scary teeth but in reality they are very peaceful and don’t cause any harm to us unless you’re in their territory and are being a nuisance or a threat then the male gets aggressive of course. That’s their job to get rid of threats to protect his troop. We can learn a lot from gorillas ?. Reply

[OrcaDaBest]

Gorilla's aren't as strong as most people believe, for example, lets look at this clip;

It took him about 5 seconds of struggling to lift a smaller gorilla off the ground:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

[color=var(--text-normal)]He could hardly even throw the opponent; he pretty much dropped it:[/color]

*This image is copyright of its original author

so, if gorilla's where really these super ape's many people make them out to be, shouldn't this gorilla have thrown that opponent several feet into the air with no effort? Reply

[Shadow]

(11-22-2020, 01:01 PM)OrcaDaBest Wrote: Gorilla's aren't as strong as most people believe, for example, lets look at this clip;

It took him about 5 seconds of struggling to lift a smaller gorilla off the ground:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

[color=var(--text-normal)]He could hardly even throw the opponent; he pretty much dropped it:[/color]

*This image is copyright of its original author

so, if gorilla's where really these super ape's many people make them out to be, shouldn't this gorilla have thrown that opponent several feet into the air with no effort?

This clip is quite problematic to figure out strength. These gorillas play around with each others and what happens there during those 5 seconds is most likely some kind of playing. If that would have been only about lifting and throwing that smaller gorilla then weight of that smaller one wasn´t the problem really. As it can be seen, bigger gorilla throws him nonchalantly like smaller would be a ragdoll. But obviously bigger one doesn´t want really hurt smaller one. This is just horseplay so to say, a bit rough from human perspective, but just playing.

I have no doubt, that this bigger gorilla could lift that smaller in split second if it would like, size difference is so big. If adult would be playing with 5-7 years old child it could look like the same. Adult could lift child anytime quickly or slowly, it´s just the matter how adult chooses to do in different occasions.

Then again I haven´t seen any video proving in some way, that gorillas would be "superstrong" in some way. Still any animal weighing 150-200 kg is very strong when comparing to people. I just don´t see any reason why gorilla would be any stronger than some other animal with same weight. I don´t think that it makes them any stronger that they happen to look a bit like us. Also modern science doesn´t back up old myths.

I have said this before, but in my thoughts gorilla is kind of combination of strongman (level Hafthor, Hall and others) and olympic gymnastic. It is very strong but in comparison to very strong people it´s capable to move like some gymnastic. That ease in fast movement is quite astonishing. Reply

[Shadow]

One interesting video. Some people are like "whoa" "so strong" and so on. But when reading description of video footage it´s said that one gorilla slammed another against this zoo glass. And when looking at video it can be seen how 2 gorillas run fast towards and against the glass wall. Did they both then hit the wall same time while running or were they in some kind of wrestling situation or did in the end one manage to in some way throw/slam another against the glass in last moment, difficult to say. But it´s quite clear, that the glass took the hit of 300-400 kg of gorilla running very fast against it. I have to say, that I´m not surprised to see some cracks in the glass. So much weight in such speed gives hard hit, put there any animals with similar weight to run full speed against glass.... I can´t see this incident so much as display of strength, just laws of physics in action by accident. It has to be said, that gorillas run quite fast when they get aggressive, they slammed against that glass hard.

This is one article concerning this case. Quite funny to read it after watching video. I wonder what this De La Pena considers as running when he says, that what happens on the video is walking. 

Also he says "one of the gorillas walked".... One? I see there two running gorillas. Maybe he hadn´t seen this video when that interview was given. But one good example about newspaper articles.... Then again also description of the video looks odd when watching it.

Quote: "According to De La Pena, one of the gorillas walked in front of the enclosure and slammed another gorilla into the glass, damaging it."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/san-diego-zoo-temporarily-closes-202004670.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANgmtwzcQAivW281fFUTKBCu-qF2MAXzudfi3FFFm60IPQ6KMb_8zwoKWqAnDt7NXDCKfx4Mb-H6zgSy_GPPlfbfVvjRzk1g8XMhfsulBj5zsksbICd8QYk1cTCfa33p1b0N75IKiOkeiBNlx30AsF-8y84yc_j85xbFXCA9OAKm Reply

[Shadow]

Small chimpanzee and small dog. Pity that dog had leash attached to collar, if it could have bitten that rope and really pull that might have ended in different way. Both seemed to try.

Reply

[Nightman]

Muscle mass of healthy gorillas and orangutans. Overall body composition.
https://apeanatomyevolution.com/wp-conte...imized.pdf
Zihlman has dissected multiple orangutan and gorilla bodies of both sexes in the past although many were quite unhealthy individuals.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Compared to human bodies (many are old or unhealthy)

*This image is copyright of its original author

These were measurements for the bodies of bonobos;

*This image is copyright of its original author

From this data, it appears that total p4p muscle mass of healthy humans and gorillas is overall quite similar, with gorillas maybe edging us out. On the other end it seems orangutans are a bit less muscular than either.
However bonobos/chimpanzees are the leanest most muscular ape at the same size, with half or more of their bodyweight consisting of muscle usually. Reply