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10-09-2019, 11:12 PM( This post was last modified: 10-09-2019, 11:13 PM by genao87 )
new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Based on this new evidence, it seems that a Otodus/Carcharocles megalodon was at a maximum of 15 meters, which will equal to a great white of 6 meters, in absolute dimentions. Above that will be quite exceptional. However we must remember that the whales of those days were also comparative small. The maximum size of the whales killed by O/C megalodon, like Cetotherimum, were about 10 meters long. Even the orcas of those days were relatively small, been of about 4-5 meters long (similar to the modern false killer whale). I don't think that the orcas will target the largest megalodon sharks but certainly were ready to kill the smaller ones of the size of the current whales of they days, at about 6-10 meters long.
It seams that in the time betweee Miocene and Pliocene, the animals like the baleen whales and even the orcas were much smaller than the modern representatives, so the only real giants, based in the fossil records, were the Otodus/Carcharocles megalodon and the Lyvyatan melvillei, with specimens reaching over 15 meters long.
" Megalodon (Carcharocles megalodon), meaning "big tooth", was a species of shark that lived approximately 23 to 3.6 million years ago (mya), during the Early Miocene to the Pliocene. It was formerly thought to be a member of the family Lamnidae, and a close relative of the great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias). However, presently there is near unanimous consensus that it belongs to the extinct family Otodontidae, which diverged from the ancestry of the great white shark during the Early Cretaceous. Its genus placement is still debated, authors placing it in either Carcharocles, Megaselachus, Otodus, or Procarcharodon. This is because transitional fossils have been found showing that Megalodon is the final chronospecies of a lineage of giant sharks originally of the genus Otodus which evolved during the Paleocene. "
Actually, the use of the great white shark as a surrogate of the form of Carcharocles (Otodus) megalodon is no longer acurate. Check the last and mos accurate reconstruction of this giant shark in the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
It looks more like a sand tiger shark, although slender it was muscular and certainly a great predator.
Credit: Harry Wilson DeviantART Megalodon, meaning "big tooth", was a species of shark that lived approximately 23 to 3.6 million years ago, during the Early Miocene to the Pliocene. It was formerly thought to be a member of the family Lamnidae, and a close relative of the great white shark. Did you know: The average size of a megalodon was around 33 feet (10 m). "
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
What are you talking about? I don´t see any sense in what you wrote really. Killer whales do kill smaller and bigger whales, far bigger than megalodon was too. And they act in very organized way, not scattering around, but moving patiently and they have been seen to use hours of time to achieve their goal. What you write looks like very hasty conclusions with no real arguments backing it up.
If you make some claim like that, use some time to reasoning too and give some real examples.
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
What are you talking about? I don´t see any sense in what you wrote really. Killer whales do kill smaller and bigger whales, far bigger than megalodon was too. And they act in very organized way, not scattering around, but moving patiently and they have been seen to use hours of time to achieve their goal. What you write looks like very hasty conclusions with no real arguments backing it up.
If you make some claim like that, use some time to reasoning too and give some real examples.
Despite the fact that orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca) have been observed to fight or kill whales (including calves of the sperm whale, Physeter macrocephalus, even if that means getting into a tussle with the adults, as I showed here), there is a baleen whale that has been seen to often stand in the way of the orca (even pods of orcas), that is the humpback (Megaptera novæangliæ), as I explained here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-...2#pid95902
08-13-2020, 04:28 AM( This post was last modified: 08-13-2020, 05:21 PM by Shadow )
(08-09-2020, 10:53 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(08-04-2020, 08:57 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(08-04-2020, 08:04 AM)scilover Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
What are you talking about? I don´t see any sense in what you wrote really. Killer whales do kill smaller and bigger whales, far bigger than megalodon was too. And they act in very organized way, not scattering around, but moving patiently and they have been seen to use hours of time to achieve their goal. What you write looks like very hasty conclusions with no real arguments backing it up.
If you make some claim like that, use some time to reasoning too and give some real examples.
Despite the fact that orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca) have been observed to fight or kill whales (including calves of the sperm whale, Physeter macrocephalus, even if that means getting into a tussle with the adults, as I showed here), there is a baleen whale that has been seen to often stand in the way of the orca (even pods of orcas), that is the humpback (Megaptera novæangliæ), as I explained here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-...2#pid95902
Is there something you try to say now concerning this matter? For instance have you ever heard of scattering killer whales? I have read a lot about confrontations between orcas and whales and watched available footage. I don´t know what you have explained, but I didn´t now understand what you try to say. My point was, that megalodons weren´t as big as biggest opponents of orcas today and I´ve never heard, that orcas would have scattered around. They don´t succeed always, but then again it´s not so clear how serious they are every time they make moves. When they are, they are relentless using time and even if not able to catch something, they are always in good order. So I can´t see it as self-evident. that in hypothetical confrontation megalodon would be clear favorite. Orcas are without any doubt one of the most intelligent predators ever lived and underestimating it when knowing their physical capabilities feels odd for me.
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
What are you talking about? I don´t see any sense in what you wrote really. Killer whales do kill smaller and bigger whales, far bigger than megalodon was too. And they act in very organized way, not scattering around, but moving patiently and they have been seen to use hours of time to achieve their goal. What you write looks like very hasty conclusions with no real arguments backing it up.
If you make some claim like that, use some time to reasoning too and give some real examples.
Despite the fact that orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca) have been observed to fight or kill whales (including calves of the sperm whale, Physeter macrocephalus, even if that means getting into a tussle with the adults, as I showed here), there is a baleen whale that has been seen to often stand in the way of the orca (even pods of orcas), that is the humpback (Megaptera novæangliæ), as I explained here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-...2#pid95902
Is there something you try to say now concerning this matter? For instance have you ever heard of scattering killer whales? I have read a lot about confrontations between orcas and whales and watched available footage. I don´t know what you have explained, but I didn´t now understand what you try to say. My point was, that megalodons weren´t as big as biggest opponents of orcas today and I´ve never heard, that orcas would have scattered around. They don´t succeed always, but then again it´s not so clear how serious they are every time they make moves. When they are, they are relentless using time and even if not able to catch something, they are always in good order. So I can´t see it as self-evident. that in hypothetical confrontation megalodon would be clear favorite. Orcas are without any doubt one of the most intelligent predators ever lived and underestimating it when knowing their physical capabilities feels odd for me.
At least these humpbacks made orcas flee, so I'm not saying that Megalodon scattered orcas for sure, but you get the idea of what can happen if a bigger marine animal decides to fight against an orca:
(10-09-2019, 11:12 PM)genao87 Wrote: new study on Meg. it calculated its frontal teeth to give a more accurate size....so we have it at 14-15 meters at maximum with 15 meters being extremely rare. I think a POD of Orcas can seriously hurt Meg now. Leviathan Melville Sperm Whale now will and can defeat it. Average size is not talked about but I am guessing around maybe 12-13.
Otodus megalodon (Lamniformes: Otodontidae) is a gigantic late Neogene shark that lived nearly worldwide in tropical-temperate regions. Its gigantic teeth have captivated imaginations of the scientific community and general public alike, where the most commonly cited maximum size range of O. megalodon in scientific literature is 18–20 m in total length (TL). In this study, I reexamined the ontogenetic development of teeth and the quantitative relationships between TL and the crown height of anterior teeth in the extant white shark, Carcharodon carcharias, with an ultimate goal to clarify the current state of the scientific understanding of the body size of O. megalodon. My study suggests that the use of upper anterior teeth is much preferred over lower anterior teeth when estimating TL.This study combined with previous studies suggests that the presently verifiable maximum TL estimates of O. megalodon (i.e. scientifically justifiable account based on museum specimens) are 14.2‒15.3 m TL, where individuals of O. megalodon exceeding 15 m TL must have been exceptionally rare. Nevertheless, O. megalodon can still be regarded as one of the largest carnivores, if not superpredators, that have ever lived on Earth.
also this video explaining it. it starts at 2:00 because he talks about other stuff.
Killer whales frequently fall flat to repress an awesome whale (or two) in an encounter so they are much more likely to come up short against a grown-up Megalodon due to the characteristics of the last mentioned. ... In comparative regard, a grown-up Megalodon won't have many inconveniences in scattering a unit of killer whales in a fight.
What are you talking about? I don´t see any sense in what you wrote really. Killer whales do kill smaller and bigger whales, far bigger than megalodon was too. And they act in very organized way, not scattering around, but moving patiently and they have been seen to use hours of time to achieve their goal. What you write looks like very hasty conclusions with no real arguments backing it up.
If you make some claim like that, use some time to reasoning too and give some real examples.
Despite the fact that orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca) have been observed to fight or kill whales (including calves of the sperm whale, Physeter macrocephalus, even if that means getting into a tussle with the adults, as I showed here), there is a baleen whale that has been seen to often stand in the way of the orca (even pods of orcas), that is the humpback (Megaptera novæangliæ), as I explained here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-...2#pid95902
Is there something you try to say now concerning this matter? For instance have you ever heard of scattering killer whales? I have read a lot about confrontations between orcas and whales and watched available footage. I don´t know what you have explained, but I didn´t now understand what you try to say. My point was, that megalodons weren´t as big as biggest opponents of orcas today and I´ve never heard, that orcas would have scattered around. They don´t succeed always, but then again it´s not so clear how serious they are every time they make moves. When they are, they are relentless using time and even if not able to catch something, they are always in good order. So I can´t see it as self-evident. that in hypothetical confrontation megalodon would be clear favorite. Orcas are without any doubt one of the most intelligent predators ever lived and underestimating it when knowing their physical capabilities feels odd for me.
At least these humpbacks made orcas flee, so I'm not saying that Megalodon scattered orcas for sure, but you get the idea of what can happen if a bigger marine animal decides to fight against an orca:
And in what way you try to compare packs of humpback whales to situation which was discussed? Hypothetical situation was Megalodon encountering killer whales. When situation is one bigger predator against pod of smaller ones it´s quite different from situation in which two intelligent species encounter so, that both species use groups and coordinated co-operation.
It´s no news, that all whales are very intelligent animals and are able to work as "units" to confront pods of orcas. In those cases there isn´t fleeing, but attacks and counter attacks until either orcas manage to kill or they give up and then happens dispersion, orcas going one way and other whales to another. Naturally if and when a pack of humpback whales make attack, orcas have to move away. If it´s only one or two humpbacks, situation can be soon very difficult for bigger whale.
It´s quite difficult to see how a lone whale or other predator could scatter orcas to flee in panic. They tend to know what they are doing and even when not successful in hunting, they just go away after trying.
If trying to find something in someway comparable, it might be bull sperm whales. They have been seen competiting with orcas and have ability to confront orcas even alone. I don´t think, that there are any known cases (at least so far) in which orcas would have been able to kill adult bull sperm whale, then again I don´t remember seeing it to happen vice versa either. And sperm whales have that "click" which can have some effect too, something what sharks, current or extinct don´t have.
