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Saltwater Crocodile-Great White Shark interactions
Saltwater Crocodile-Great White Shark interactions
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Saltwater Crocodile-Great White Shark interactions
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"Seriously? Crocodiles have the same coefficient of hydrodynamic efficiency as a marine animals. I wrote about this earlier. The maximum recorded swimming speed of the saltwater crocodile is comparable to the maximum recorded swimming speed of the great white shark, especially if we are talking about large sharks. Crocodiles are really underrated as pelagic swimmers."
Comparable isn't the same as equal, a GWS still can out swim a Croc at top speeds, by 5-10mph while being much more agile in the water and diving deeper, having no need to breath air from the surface is another telling advantage that they'll be able to maintain a higher output since the strain of oxygen depletion isn't something they'll need to worry about. "Lolong is the largest crocodile ever caught alive, but not the largest recorded crocodile and not even the heaviest crocodile kept in captivity. I know more than 10 skulls of saltwater crocodiles that are larger than the skull of Lolong:" Lolong is the largest crocodile ever measured from head to tip of the tail, being heaviest is a benefit for a captive creature, they will most likely maintain more weight since they no longer work for food or territory. I have also not seen any measurements for Lolongs skull, can you post those please? Also, I'm taking into account verified weights, if we were to use sharks like these... https://ourplnt.com/largest-great-white-...-recorded/ you are looking at sharks of equal length but 3 times as heavy. A shark is a torpedo of mass and teeth, they don't have a long skull, tail and limbs that take away from their true mass while adding length to their HBL. There is a reason why GWS constantly weigh more than Crocs, no matter the length. 
Crocodiles have a hydrodynamic efficiency coefficient of 0.7-0.9 (source). I do not have data on sharks, but bottlenose dolphin has an efficiency coefficient of 0.85, trout has an maximum efficiency coefficient of 0.75, and efficiency of trout and salmon was calculated at 0.7-0.9 (as in crocs, taken from here). Therefore, I can assume that in this case "comparable" is the same as "equal" and crocodiles spend as much energy on swimming as fully aquatic animals do. Oxygen consumption is not very important, as both sharks and crocodiles rely on anaerobic metabolism during high physical activity and crocs can hold their breath for 20-30 minutes during an active swimming, and have effective buoyancy change mechanisms for passive reaching the water surface. But crocs have a better anaerobic ability than sharks which roughly means that they have a better stamina. As for speed, in small size categories (using 3-meter total length for example) sharks really swim faster, but large sharks (using 5.5 meter great white sharks specimens for example) become disproportionately slow and seem to have same maximum burst swim speed as large crocodiles. I gave this data in past posts.
Lolong is not "largest crocodile ever measured from head to tip of the tail". There are a dried skin from Papua that actually (after addition a 72 cm skull) suggests a 6.3-meter long crocodile, which could be even larger (up to 6.7 meters) during its lifetime. Data from Britton & Whitaker (2012): Quote:After Lolong, the best documented evidence of a record-sizedcrocodile comes from Obo village on the Fly River in Papua New Guinea (Montague 1983). This crocodile drowned in a fishing netset for barramundi fish and after 50 men hauled the crocodileonto the bank they found an entire Rusa Deer (Cervus timorensis) carcass in the stomach. The crocodile’s skin had already beenremoved and salted when Jerome Montague and one of the au-thors (RW) visited the village, but the skin plus decapitated headmeasured 6.2 m (20.3 ft). The authors considered this likely anunderestimate considering possible shrinkage of the skin plusan incomplete tail tip, suggesting a TL closer to 6.3 m.And data from personal email correspondence with Adam in 2014 (about 6,7 meter figure from Erickson et al., 2012): Quote:The 6.7 m figure from the paper cites a popular book "Crocodiles and Alligators" written in 1989 by one of the paper's co-authors. I don't have that book to hand to double-check exactly what was said, but I believe both figures were citing the same paper.All measurements of Lolong can be found in Britton & Whitaker (2012) paper. And data on larger skulls can be found also in Britton & Whitaker (2012) paper, in my previous post and here (head length or HL corresponds to the dorsocranial length of the skull or DCL). I do not think that calculations from actually known skulls can be compared with such unverified data (and, as in the case of a 6-meter 7000-pound monster shark from Cuba, even refuted). The point is not that the "crocodile with the same length is heavier" (in fact, the 6-meter great white shark will be about 2 times heavier than the 6-meter croc), but that the largest salties seems to have a greater verified lengths than the largest verified great whites (and be only on ~1/3 less heavy).  (04-05-2019, 01:16 PM)TheSmok Wrote: Crocodiles have a hydrodynamic efficiency coefficient of 0.7-0.9 (source). I do not have data on sharks, but bottlenose dolphin has an efficiency coefficient of 0.85, trout has an maximum efficiency coefficient of 0.75, and efficiency of trout and salmon was calculated at 0.7-0.9 (as in crocs, taken from here). Therefore, I can assume that in this case "comparable" is the same as "equal" and crocodiles spend as much energy on swimming as fully aquatic animals do. Oxygen consumption is not very important, as both sharks and crocodiles rely on anaerobic metabolism during high physical activity and crocs can hold their breath for 20-30 minutes during an active swimming, and have effective buoyancy change mechanisms for passive reaching the water surface. But crocs have a better anaerobic ability than sharks which roughly means that they have a better stamina. As for speed, in small size categories (using 3-meter total length for example) sharks really swim faster, but large sharks (using 5.5 meter great white sharks specimens for example) become disproportionately slow and seem to have same maximum burst swim speed as large crocodiles. I gave this data in past posts.Very valuable information of measurements of Saltwater Crocodiles 
I put this video here too, even though shark isn´t great white (shark can be seen 1:30-4:00). Still this is pretty rare footage, where can be seen quite same sized shark and croc in sea. Who knows if one day someone catches confrontation.
Like crocs, great whites can be social when hunting seals, or when faced with orcas, and both cases happen to have been reported from Mossel Bay near Seal Island, near Cape Town in southwest South Africa, where great whites would prey on Cape and Brown fur seals, besides other creatures like penguins: http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsit...ature.html, https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-orcas...g-predator
In early November 2019, a pod of orcas were seen chasing a shark, with some other sharks being nearby. One of the other sharks was apparently 'unnerved' by the presence of orcas, while another did not appear to be 'perturbed', according to Oceans Research. Sharks feasting on a whale carcass: To put it simply, great whites can be social, so I wouldn't be surprised if great whites and crocs were to bond together in the face of the threat posed to both of them by orcas, though to date, I don't know of any case of orcas attacking crocs, like they do for great whites and other sharks. (02-08-2019, 06:51 PM)Pckts Wrote: Elephant seals are far larger than any prey crocodiles can take so the idea that Sharks take smaller prey proportionately isn't correct. this is an absurd form of fanboyism. How could any one seriously assert that that there are no successful attempts of crocs taking down bull buffalo? Sharks attacking mature elephant seals is rare. The preferred prey of the white shark are smaller seals/sea lions (02-14-2020, 11:12 AM)Antiochus Wrote:Sharks take elephant seals of all sizes, this includes males occasionally. It just matters on the location and time of year.(02-08-2019, 06:51 PM)Pckts Wrote: Elephant seals are far larger than any prey crocodiles can take so the idea that Sharks take smaller prey proportionately isn't correct. "The Great White uses different techniques when attacking different species of pinniped. Northern Elephant Seals (Mirounga angustirostris) are not easy to catch. They are station wagon-sized, phenomenal repeated deep-divers, and very powerful swimmers. But at the surface, Elephant Seals have all the maneuverability of an aircraft carrier. In order to tackle an Elephant Seal, a Great White typically attacks from below and behind, immobilizes the seal with a tremendous bite to the hindquarters, then retreats and waits for its prey to bleed to death before returning to feed. Hunks of blubber and flesh are sawed away at the surface, but taken to or near the bottom to be swallowed. This so-called "bite-and-spit" strategy is typically employed by White Sharks feeding on adult Northern Elephant Seals, but does not hold for pinnipeds of lesser dimensions. Smaller seals, such as the 1.5-meter Harbor Seal (Phoca vitulina), are grabbed at the surface and pulled underwater until they stop struggling, then eaten at or near the bottom; juvenile Harbor Seals are simply plucked from the surface like grapes and eaten whole (Harbor Seals seem to be the perfect White Shark snack food: they're abundant, slow-moving, and bite-sized - sort of Phoca McNuggets!) The 2.5-metre-long California Sea Lion (Zalophus californianus) is a more powerful swimmer than the Harbor Seal, and is typically attacked by a White Shark from below, struck in mid-body, dragged below the surface until it stops struggling, then eaten at or near the bottom." http://www.sharkresearchcommittee.com/predation.htm Crocodiles have never been filmed succesfully taking a bull cape, but like I already stated... I'm sure it happens Your argument is also applicable to both sides, you can say crocodiles preferred prey are much smaller than cape buffalo, what does that have to do with anything? So keep your fanboy call to yourself, especially if you're going to act like one.
It seems like they’re around the same speed with the great white having the slight advantage. But I think great whites are more agile they can maneuver very quickly for their size they have too their prey is seal. Compared to a buffalo taking a sip . Both have different hunting styles but both are equally powerful in my opinion.
(08-07-2020, 09:09 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: It seems like they’re around the same speed with the great white having the slight advantage. But I think great whites are more agile they can maneuver very quickly for their size they have too their prey is seal. Compared to a buffalo taking a sip . Both have different hunting styles but both are equally powerful in my opinion. And I feel that they are threatened by the same enemy in the ocean: the orca or killer whale (Orcinus orca). Orcas are known to dominate great whites, which are heavier than salties, so what is a saltie going to do if it comes across an orca?
That’s what I’ve been thinking. Orcas are smart and could probably learn that a croc has a weak underbelly and take advantage of that weakness . And unlike the shark the orcas bite would hurt the croc regardless 19,000 psi is no joke.
(08-07-2020, 11:25 PM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: That’s what I’ve been thinking. Orcas are smart and could probably learn that a croc has a weak underbelly and take advantage of that weakness . And unlike the shark the orcas bite would hurt the croc regardless 19,000 psi is no joke. ... Croc's bite. Whereas sharks use their sharp teeth to cut through flesh, like how a knife can cut through butter or something, crocs can use their powerful jaws to crush their prey, but even then, the orca is pretty big. If even a group of Nile crocs can have trouble with a bunch of hippos, despite their strong bites, then one ought to wonder how a saltie is going to fare against even a single orca? So the case of a saltie vs a great white seems to be a fairer match:
Yeah to be honest orcas are overpowered they’re already more capable on their own than a saltie and a great white but they also have intelligence and they hunt in groups .
Near my area there was a 12 foot gator seen at the lake and I know bull sharks swim in fresh water sometimes so it would be interesting to see how they interact since a gator isn’t a saltie . Last year a fisherman caught a 7’7 bull shark and I do know you don’t have to travel far to see some gators in the ocean since the aquarium would keep the grown gators in like an enclosure outside in the ocean water and I think a few got out so there’s probably a few gators in the ocean right now where I live herehttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.click2houston.com/news/texas/2020/06/16/texan-teen-catches-nearly-900-pound-shark-in-port-aransas/%3foutputType=amp a 13 year old boy caught a 11’6 tiger shark and it weighed almost 850 pounds I think this year . Herehttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.click2houston.com/news/2019/09/13/11-foot-7-inch-tiger-shark-caught-off-beach-in-corpus-christi/%3foutputType=amp a man caught an 11’7 foot tiger shark at the beach herehttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kiiitv.com/amp/article/news/local/14-foot-hammerhead-caught-by-corpus-christi-fisherman/503-574121043 a man 4 years ago caught a 13 foot hammerhead then 2 years ago a man caught a 14 foot hammerhead So the gators will have to watch out for hammerheads,tiger sharks,dolphins,bull sharks,and any other threat. 
The croc only needs to rip off the sharks fin to drown it and kill it.
But if the shark gets the crocs underbelly first it is curtains for the croc. |
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