There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
I made a new comparative image of the size of the Amur Brown bear and the Amur tiger. Measurements are the same, but now we take in count that both were taken along the curves. We know that measuring a bear "over curves" had a bigger difference than a felid measured "over curves", so in theory the average length fo the bear should be smaller than that of the Amur tiger, but as this is speculation and based in the fact that they seems to be of the same length I scaled about the same in head-body, but bear is taller. I also updated the weight information with modern data, usefull for comparisons. So, here it is:
(04-19-2020, 10:34 AM)GuateGojira when will you be posting the size comparison of great apes Wrote: I made a new comparative image of the size of the Amur Brown bear and the Amur tiger. Measurements are the same, but now we take in count that both were taken along the curves. We know that measuring a bear "over curves" had a bigger difference than a felid measured "over curves", so in theory the average length fo the bear should be smaller than that of the Amur tiger, but as this is speculation and based in the fact that they seems to be of the same length I scaled about the same in head-body, but bear is taller. I also updated the weight information with modern data, usefull for comparisons. So, here it is:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
06-04-2020, 12:46 AM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 12:48 AM by eagleman )
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
The 350 kilo male bear is a middle sized male in Romania, The largest males are more than 400 kilos, with some approaching 500 kilos in autumn. The particular enviromnment condition of Caprpathian Mountains favorized the evolution of a particular and quite distincr population fom brown bears in Europe. For example , the top 10 of brown bear skulls from Europe are coming from Romania, according to FCI official measurements.
The longest bear hunted in Romania, ad a length of 2,77 meters from tipof nose to the base of tail.
06-04-2020, 02:36 AM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 02:39 AM by Shadow )
(06-04-2020, 12:46 AM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
The 350 kilo male bear is a middle sized male in Romania, The largest males are more than 400 kilos, with some approaching 500 kilos in autumn. The particular enviromnment condition of Caprpathian Mountains favorized the evolution of a particular and quite distincr population fom brown bears in Europe. For example , the top 10 of brown bear skulls from Europe are coming from Romania, according to FCI official measurements.
The longest bear hunted in Romania, ad a length of 2,77 meters from tipof nose to the base of tail.
Are there any records of these bears said to be over 400 kg? I don´t really believe that 350 kg would be middle sized even there, it´s quite big for brown bears in Europe.. I have seen some people in Finland talking too about 500 kg bears, but never any real proof. 500 kg would be a big bear even at Kodiak Islands.
And 2,77 meters from nose to tail, I´m not buying that really if no really hard evidence, that would be over 3 meters tall on hind legs. Starts to sound some stories from hunters with too much alcohol. So do you have something concrete to verify that?
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
06-04-2020, 12:28 PM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 12:31 PM by eagleman )
(06-04-2020, 02:51 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
First , wildtransilvania is not a reliable source about bears from Romania, but a website of antihunting eco-marxists.
2. Any 350 kilo bear is huge for the european subspecies, especially in spring time...
3.There are of course even +480 kilo bears in Romania in late autumn time
4.Romania has the largest bear population in Europe with almoust 7.000 individuals, of course that such a big population will spawn outstanding individuals
5.Any serous hunter and biologist can testify about the relative largeness of Carpathian brown bears, there are facts, like sknis and skulls to prove that, no need to listend drunk hunters for that.
6. The vast majority of bears skins and skulls from Romania are hosted in The Cinegetical Museum of Romania, located in Posada, Prahova County. Here is the enormous skin measuroing 2,77 meters even after it was dried, of the largest bear taken in Romania. The same skin measured 191 centimeters in the widest point. Also, there are dozend and dozens of other skins and skulls. Any professional researcher is allowed to measure all these hunting records.
7. The ultimate proof about largeness of Carpathian bears in Europe is given the fact that in all the Eurasia, they are immediate after Kamtschatkan brown bears (a different subspecies) when it cames about sheer size. And the differences are infimes. How infimes? Lets take a look at the facts.
In 10 April 2015, on the hunting terrain near the village of Vârșag, Harghita County, the hungarian hunter Kosztolany Laszlo leggaly hunted the largest bear from Romania ever measured. that bear skull, obtained 70,01 CIC points wich mean that is has the lenght of 44, 10 centimeters and vas 25, 91 centimeters wide. The second largest skull taken in Romania has 69,2 CIC points wich mean a lenght of 41,8 centimeters and was 27,4 centimeters wide. Show me similar measurements for the largest bears form Scandinavia, can you?
The largest bear hunted in Kamtschatka was shooted by the hunter V.N. Kordienko in 1992, The skull was omologated in 1999 in the Moskow Hunting Expo, that particular skul obtained 70, 32 CIC points, so it almouts similar to the 70,01 CIC skull of the Carpathian bear hunted in 2015.
For comparison and also as a ultimate proof, according to Boon and Crookett the largest Kodiak Bear skull has 78,1 points.
8. In the picture is the second largest bear hunted in Romania, the monster from Bistrița Năsăud County, in the hunting terrain of Colibița, and it was shot by the french hunter Xavier de Montbell, in picture near the bear. The skull has 69,2 CIC points, with 41,8 centimeters in lenght, and 27,4 cetimeters wide. The skin obtained 560,2 CIC points,
06-04-2020, 02:29 PM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 02:30 PM by Shadow )
(06-04-2020, 12:28 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 02:51 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
First , wildtransilvania is not a reliable source about bears from Romania, but a website of antihunting eco-marxists.
2. Any 350 kilo bear is huge for the european subspecies, especially in spring time...
3.There are of course even +480 kilo bears in Romania in late autumn time
4.Romania has the largest bear population in Europe with almoust 7.000 individuals, of course that such a big population will spawn outstanding individuals
5.Any serous hunter and biologist can testify about the relative largeness of Carpathian brown bears, there are facts, like sknis and skulls to prove that, no need to listend drunk hunters for that.
6. The vast majority of bears skins and skulls from Romania are hosted in The Cinegetical Museum of Romania, located in Posada, Prahova County. Here is the enormous skin measuroing 2,77 meters even after it was dried, of the largest bear taken in Romania. The same skin measured 191 centimeters in the widest point. Also, there are dozend and dozens of other skins and skulls. Any professional researcher is allowed to measure all these hunting records.
7. The ultimate proof about largeness of Carpathian bears in Europe is given the fact that in all the Eurasia, they are immediate after Kamtschatkan brown bears (a different subspecies) when it cames about sheer size. And the differences are infimes. How infimes? Lets take a look at the facts.
In 10 April 2015, on the hunting terrain near the village of Vârșag, Harghita County, the hungarian hunter Kosztolany Laszlo leggaly hunted the largest bear from Romania ever measured. that bear skull, obtained 70,01 CIC points wich mean that is has the lenght of 44, 10 centimeters and vas 25, 91 centimeters wide. The second largest skull taken in Romania has 69,2 CIC points wich mean a lenght of 41,8 centimeters and was 27,4 centimeters wide. Show me similar measurements for the largest bears form Scandinavia, can you?
The largest bear hunted in Kamtschatka was shooted by the hunter V.N. Kordienko in 1992, The skull was omologated in 1999 in the Moskow Hunting Expo, that particular skul obtained 70, 32 CIC points, so it almouts similar to the 70,01 CIC skull of the Carpathian bear hunted in 2015.
For comparison and also as a ultimate proof, according to Boon and Crookett the largest Kodiak Bear skull has 78,1 points.
8. In the picture is the second largest bear hunted in Romania, the monster from Bistrița Năsăud County, in the hunting terrain of Colibița, and it was shot by the french hunter Xavier de Montbell, in picture near the bear. The skull has 69,2 CIC points, with 41,8 centimeters in lenght, and 27,4 cetimeters wide. The skin obtained 560,2 CIC points,
I saw in many other sites too mentioned, that up to 350 kg is normal for Carpathian brown bears. And I don´t see any reason really to it, what would make them extraordinary big in average even though there can be some exceptional individual among others. In very good conditions they can be then really heavy, much heavier than they are in average year.
But I see that you have partially good points and partially you make assumptions. Like in it, that there would be heavier bears than that 480 kg, for inland brown bear gaining that much weight is so much, that I don´t think that so big bears would be seen all the time anywhere in Eurasia, when we exclude Kamchatkan bears who have access to salmon rivers.
Anyway interesting information, thanks, I have to look closer too what kind of things is mentioned about bears in that area by different sources, not alone by hunters. When hunters are main source I always like to find some other information too to see if such information backs up what hunters tell or are there big differences. What comes to Finland it´s so, that information of biggest known bears come from researchers, not from hunters. Still nowadays hunters are more reliable source, than "in good old days". They can´t exaggerate anymore as much as in past and with this I don´t mean only bears but overall situation when looking back something like 50+ years ago.
Anyway very interesting to see if something more can be found and maybe some explanations if there is something different in Carpathian area or just a few very lucky hunters. Thanks for this extra information!
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
First , wildtransilvania is not a reliable source about bears from Romania, but a website of antihunting eco-marxists.
2. Any 350 kilo bear is huge for the european subspecies, especially in spring time...
3.There are of course even +480 kilo bears in Romania in late autumn time
4.Romania has the largest bear population in Europe with almoust 7.000 individuals, of course that such a big population will spawn outstanding individuals
5.Any serous hunter and biologist can testify about the relative largeness of Carpathian brown bears, there are facts, like sknis and skulls to prove that, no need to listend drunk hunters for that.
6. The vast majority of bears skins and skulls from Romania are hosted in The Cinegetical Museum of Romania, located in Posada, Prahova County. Here is the enormous skin measuroing 2,77 meters even after it was dried, of the largest bear taken in Romania. The same skin measured 191 centimeters in the widest point. Also, there are dozend and dozens of other skins and skulls. Any professional researcher is allowed to measure all these hunting records.
7. The ultimate proof about largeness of Carpathian bears in Europe is given the fact that in all the Eurasia, they are immediate after Kamtschatkan brown bears (a different subspecies) when it cames about sheer size. And the differences are infimes. How infimes? Lets take a look at the facts.
In 10 April 2015, on the hunting terrain near the village of Vârșag, Harghita County, the hungarian hunter Kosztolany Laszlo leggaly hunted the largest bear from Romania ever measured. that bear skull, obtained 70,01 CIC points wich mean that is has the lenght of 44, 10 centimeters and vas 25, 91 centimeters wide. The second largest skull taken in Romania has 69,2 CIC points wich mean a lenght of 41,8 centimeters and was 27,4 centimeters wide. Show me similar measurements for the largest bears form Scandinavia, can you?
The largest bear hunted in Kamtschatka was shooted by the hunter V.N. Kordienko in 1992, The skull was omologated in 1999 in the Moskow Hunting Expo, that particular skul obtained 70, 32 CIC points, so it almouts similar to the 70,01 CIC skull of the Carpathian bear hunted in 2015.
For comparison and also as a ultimate proof, according to Boon and Crookett the largest Kodiak Bear skull has 78,1 points.
8. In the picture is the second largest bear hunted in Romania, the monster from Bistrița Năsăud County, in the hunting terrain of Colibița, and it was shot by the french hunter Xavier de Montbell, in picture near the bear. The skull has 69,2 CIC points, with 41,8 centimeters in lenght, and 27,4 cetimeters wide. The skin obtained 560,2 CIC points,
Frankly saying one reason to my skepticism can be found here:
Those were crazy times in more than one way back then before Soviet Union collapsed. Difficult to say if we even today know all the crazy things done back then.
06-04-2020, 03:14 PM( This post was last modified: 06-04-2020, 03:15 PM by Shadow )
(06-04-2020, 12:28 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 02:51 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 04:24 PM)eagleman Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 05:26 PM)brotherbear Wrote: ~~New World record skull size Kamchatka Brown Bear at 30 11/16 inchesGreatest length of skull 18 13/16"=47,78 cmGreatest width of skull =11 14/16"=30,16 cm
Source www.scirecordbook.org First posted by Warsaw - http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
The largest brown bears in all the Europe are those from Carpathian Mountains of Romania, as the widest skull was 29 centimeter and the second one 27,6.
I´m not sure if bears from Carpathia are really the largest in all Europe because I´m not sure if Finnish and Scandinavian hunters send information to those record books. Still for instance in Finland has been shot several male bears over 350 kg and biggest wild bear, which was sedated and collared was 373 kg. It is one huge wild Eurasian brown bear. I don´t think, that there are big differences between Eurasian brown bears of Carpathia and other populations, same bear after all.
I found this now quickly and this site mentions a 480 kg bear. But same site also has this text:
"Brown bears have a large global distribution which reflects their ability to adapt to a variety of habitats. There are estimated to be more than 200,000 brown bears worldwide, with approximately 6000 individuals in the Carpathian region of Romania. They are amongst the largest living carnivores and can grow to an enormous size, males up to 350kg, and females to 200kg, with the biggest on record being caught in Romania weighing 480kg. Adult males tend to be on average 8 to 10% larger than females. They have good hearing, an excellent sense of smell and can live for up to 30 years."
So it looks like, that 350 kg bear is huge also when talking about Carpathian brown bears. I wonder from what year that 480 kg is? Then again I know, that it´s possible in very good conditions because famous captive Eurasian brown bear Juuso was one time 483 kg just before hibernation. He was that time in exceptionally fat condition. I think, that his weight variates somewhere in between 380-480 kg in autumns.
Anyway I think, that on average differences between Carpathian brown bears in comparison with other populations of Eurasian brown bears aren´t significant. One exceptional bear can create a lot of stories. It´s a bit same when we look at Ussuri brown bears, they seem to be on average quite the same as Eurasian brown bears overall, but there was and maybe is still alive one bear, which was following a tigress and camera trap got a photo of him. He was one absolute "monster" dwarfing that tigress in way, which was really impressive. Any male tiger would have been dwarfed too based on that photo, it wasn´t only in fat condition, also his shoulder height was looking to be exceptional.
Anyway I haven´t ever looked too closely information about Carpathian brown bears, it would be nice if you have more sources and information.
First , wildtransilvania is not a reliable source about bears from Romania, but a website of antihunting eco-marxists.
2. Any 350 kilo bear is huge for the european subspecies, especially in spring time...
3.There are of course even +480 kilo bears in Romania in late autumn time
4.Romania has the largest bear population in Europe with almoust 7.000 individuals, of course that such a big population will spawn outstanding individuals
5.Any serous hunter and biologist can testify about the relative largeness of Carpathian brown bears, there are facts, like sknis and skulls to prove that, no need to listend drunk hunters for that.
6. The vast majority of bears skins and skulls from Romania are hosted in The Cinegetical Museum of Romania, located in Posada, Prahova County. Here is the enormous skin measuroing 2,77 meters even after it was dried, of the largest bear taken in Romania. The same skin measured 191 centimeters in the widest point. Also, there are dozend and dozens of other skins and skulls. Any professional researcher is allowed to measure all these hunting records.
7. The ultimate proof about largeness of Carpathian bears in Europe is given the fact that in all the Eurasia, they are immediate after Kamtschatkan brown bears (a different subspecies) when it cames about sheer size. And the differences are infimes. How infimes? Lets take a look at the facts.
In 10 April 2015, on the hunting terrain near the village of Vârșag, Harghita County, the hungarian hunter Kosztolany Laszlo leggaly hunted the largest bear from Romania ever measured. that bear skull, obtained 70,01 CIC points wich mean that is has the lenght of 44, 10 centimeters and vas 25, 91 centimeters wide. The second largest skull taken in Romania has 69,2 CIC points wich mean a lenght of 41,8 centimeters and was 27,4 centimeters wide. Show me similar measurements for the largest bears form Scandinavia, can you?
The largest bear hunted in Kamtschatka was shooted by the hunter V.N. Kordienko in 1992, The skull was omologated in 1999 in the Moskow Hunting Expo, that particular skul obtained 70, 32 CIC points, so it almouts similar to the 70,01 CIC skull of the Carpathian bear hunted in 2015.
For comparison and also as a ultimate proof, according to Boon and Crookett the largest Kodiak Bear skull has 78,1 points.
8. In the picture is the second largest bear hunted in Romania, the monster from Bistrița Năsăud County, in the hunting terrain of Colibița, and it was shot by the french hunter Xavier de Montbell, in picture near the bear. The skull has 69,2 CIC points, with 41,8 centimeters in lenght, and 27,4 cetimeters wide. The skin obtained 560,2 CIC points,
Now I found this, I knew that I had read this before, but I had to search it again. But this is good to read too, when thinking over the overall picture.
Quote:
"However, female brown bears may be larger in the Carpathian Mountains. Hell (1992) reported a mean mass of 140–160 kg and a maximum of 209 kg for adult females in Slovakia, most of which had been killed in the spring. In contrast with this, the adult male mass, primarily from spring males, appears to be lower in Slovakia than in our areas, with a mean of 170–190 kg and maximum of 328 kg. The lower masses for males and higher masses for females could be the result of a Slovakian policy to avoid shooting the largest bears in order to save older males (Salvatori et al. 2002), which might have resulted in biased sampling."
"Greater masses have also been reported from the Romanian Carpathians, with average masses of 214 kg for females and 268 kg for males, but no further information on age or time of kill was provided, or data on whether these were especially large bears shot as trophies (Alma˘san and Vasiliu 1967). Thus, we do not know if brown bears actually are larger in the Carpathians than elsewhere in Europe."
Russian Brown Bears
