Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[lionjaguar]

Anyone has any idea of why African lions have size difference in entire similar environments? Reply

[GuateGojira]

Finall work about the size of the lion (Panthera leo) presented in this other topic, post number 293: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...eo?page=20

Greetings. Reply

[Hello]

Pic of that young lion (Leo,HPL-10) of 335 cm total length over curves.He is a giant for a lion maybe 320 over pegs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[Pckts]

(03-31-2020, 09:47 AM)Hello Wrote: Pic of that young lion (Leo,HPL-10) of 335 cm total length over curves.He is a giant for a lion maybe 320 over pegs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

I highly doubt this Lion is 10'9'' 
even over the curves.
If his Tail is the standard 36'' size, that would mean he is 7'9'' head and body.
That's a gigantic cat and he doesn't look that size imo.


Here is something else on Okavango Delta Lions not being very large.
From Fred Bartlett's book "Shoot Straight and Stay Alive"

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[GuateGojira]

(03-31-2020, 09:47 AM)Hello Wrote: Pic of that young lion (Leo,HPL-10) of 335 cm total length over curves.He is a giant for a lion maybe 320 over pegs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That lion was incorrectly measured, it is "young adult" and there is no way that he could measure even close to 300 cm "between pegs".

Like I explained before, those lions from Hobatere are short and fat, all of them were measured "over curves" from the teeth (not even the nose!) following all the curves of the body, giving completelly unreliable results.

I presented a long explanation about the unreliable form that the measurements of the Hobatere lions were taken, please check this link, post No. 3: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-an...er-heights

Check also this topic, posts 53 and 57: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-modern-...ons?page=4

We have a list of 152 male lions measured "between pegs" from East and Southern Africa and none surpass the 114 cm and all are adult males and the largest captive male lion in history, a real giant, did not surpassed the 112 cm (Simba lion). Plus, from a list of 134 adult males measured "between pegs", the longest specimen measured 218 cm in head-body (South Africa), and even from the other 63 adult males measured "along the curves" in modern scientific litterature, the longest one was of 209 cm in head-body (Zimbabwe). Hope this helps to clarify the status of the report. Reply

[Hello]

@GuateGojira ,How much difference is there in value between Limb length and shoulder height? Reply

[Hello]

By judging the measurements of the hpl10, he seems to be very tall but gracile and less robust and he will fill his weight at 6-7.In the pic he is full bellied

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[GuateGojira]

(04-01-2020, 09:27 AM)Hello Wrote: @GuateGojira ,How much difference is there in value between Limb length and shoulder height?

It depends of the length of the paw and honestly there are very few figures in litterature, especifically only those from the Amur tigers by the Siberian Tiger Project and the Hobatere lions.

Using the Amur tigers, the average diference is of 20 cm in males (n=11) and 18 cm in females (n=9), measured by the Siberian Tiger Project team (Kerley et al., 2005).

Now, using the Hobatere lions, the average diference is of 11 cm in males (n=3) and 13 cm in females (n=2), and after the first report, in the second one they just mixed the results like I explained before. Now you can see how odd are the results of the Hobatere lions compared with those of the Amur tigers (lionesses had "bigger" paws than lions?).

Apart from that, I don't know of any other study that actually measured the diference between "limb length" and "shoulder height", sadly. Reply

[GuateGojira]

(04-01-2020, 09:37 AM)Hello Wrote: By judging the measurements of the hpl10, he seems to be very tall but gracile and less robust and he will fill his weight at 6-7.In the pic he is full bellied

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

This table, compiled by @peter, shows how unreliable are the measurements of those lions, not all of course, but the measurements of lions HPL-2, HPL-10 and HPL-11 are rubish!

You need to have this in mind: One of the largest cats of the Pleistocene, the American "lion" Panthera atrox, had a maximum head-body length calculated in 250 cm and a shoulder height of 125 cm. Now compare it with the "young adult" male lion HPL-10 in the table of peter with 247 cm in head-body and 147 cm in shoulder height (sic!) and then you will see how mislead are those measurements. And the innacuarcy is not from peter, those measurements are exactly the same ones in the reports of the staff at Hobatere.

How they took it? That is the question. Reply

[Pantherinae]

(03-31-2020, 09:41 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(03-31-2020, 09:47 AM)Hello Wrote: Pic of that young lion (Leo,HPL-10) of 335 cm total length over curves.He is a giant for a lion maybe 320 over pegs.

*This image is copyright of its original author

I highly doubt this Lion is 10'9'' 
even over the curves.
If his Tail is the standard 36'' size, that would mean he is 7'9'' head and body.
That's a gigantic cat and he doesn't look that size imo.


Here is something else on Okavango Delta Lions not being very large.
From Fred Bartlett's book "Shoot Straight and Stay Alive"

*This image is copyright of its original author

Okavango lions are big imo. This was just one lion. 
Moremi has some very impressive lions.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

I have heard people say they are the biggest lions as well. The lions look massive as well. Not just in bulk, but also in comparison to vehicles. Not saying it’s a fact, but enough for me to tell they are not small. Some might be, but there are big lions from Okavango. Reply

[Hello]

Here is an another big and bulky Okavango lion.I put him in 500 lb+ league

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[Pckts]

(04-01-2020, 06:31 PM)Hello Wrote: Here is an another big and bulky Okavango lion.I put him in 500 lb+ league

He's full bellied, not necessarily massive.

@Pantherinae 
Unfortunately with those same 3 images, they have the benefit of a flattering perspective.
Im sure you can find the same cat's with less impressive angles 
As of now I have 2 reliable sources saying they are smaller than Lions elsewhere.
Do I think that is a representation of all Delta Lions, probably not but it's definitely interesting to note. Reply

[Pantherinae]

(04-01-2020, 07:02 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-01-2020, 06:31 PM)Hello Wrote: Here is an another big and bulky Okavango lion.I put him in 500 lb+ league

He's full bellied, not necessarily massive.

@Pantherinae 
Unfortunately with those same 3 images, they have the benefit of a flattering perspective.
Im sure you can find the same cat's with less impressive angles 
As of now I have 2 reliable sources saying they are smaller than Lions elsewhere.
Do I think that is a representation of all Delta Lions, probably not but it's definitely interesting to note.

Here is a big male lion from the Delta, impressive lion. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Response I got from Looking for lions. 
Yes, he was quite a big lion! We measure along the body curves, so for body length from the top of the nose pad and over the head, along the spine to the start of the tail. He measured 197.5 cm, with a tail length of 92cm (from the start of the tail to the tip of the last caudal vertebra). Chest girth was 130.5 cm and shoulder height (from the spine to the start of the paw pad) 131.5cm. Unfortunately, I didn't have a scale but  the vet estimated him to be around 240kg. 

Robynne

Yes I agree the angle is flattering, but still that is a big lion. people say Renoka (this lions name) is very big and dwarfs the females in his pride. Reply

[Hello]

(04-01-2020, 08:04 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(04-01-2020, 07:02 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-01-2020, 06:31 PM)Hello Wrote: Here is an another big and bulky Okavango lion.I put him in 500 lb+ league

He's full bellied, not necessarily massive.

@Pantherinae 
Unfortunately with those same 3 images, they have the benefit of a flattering perspective.
Im sure you can find the same cat's with less impressive angles 
As of now I have 2 reliable sources saying they are smaller than Lions elsewhere.
Do I think that is a representation of all Delta Lions, probably not but it's definitely interesting to note.

Here is a big male lion from the Delta, impressive lion. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Response I got from Looking for lions. 
Yes, he was quite a big lion! We measure along the body curves, so for body length from the top of the nose pad and over the head, along the spine to the start of the tail. He measured 197.5 cm, with a tail length of 92cm (from the start of the tail to the tip of the last caudal vertebra). Chest girth was 130.5 cm and shoulder height (from the spine to the start of the paw pad) 131.5cm. Unfortunately, I didn't have a scale but  the vet estimated him to be around 240kg. 

Robynne

Yes I agree the angle is flattering, but still that is a big lion. people say Renoka (this lions name) is very big and dwarfs the females in his pride.

Wow,he's probably one of the tallest lion.Even over curves he's impressive and let's not forget Tsaro pride male Reply

[Hello]

Tsaro male

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