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Puma
THE PUMA - CAT OF ONE COLOUR (Puma concolor)
THE PUMA - CAT OF ONE COLOUR (Puma concolor)
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THE PUMA - CAT OF ONE COLOUR (Puma concolor)
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 (02-20-2020, 10:28 PM)Pckts Wrote: Huge Female Great find @Pckts one day I had briefly seen that first photo on top but just by scrolling down with no details and by the size I could've sworn it was a male haha, she is massive, very impressive shoulders I can only imagine how big a male Mountain Lion in this same environment can look. north america is definitely the land of big Puma concolor.  (02-20-2020, 10:45 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(02-20-2020, 10:28 PM)Pckts Wrote: Huge Female North America doesn't have all the big cougars. It's like this, the size of the puma tends to increase away from the equator (which crosses northern South America) and towards the poles, so the biggest cougars would be found in Canada, the U.S.A., and South America south of the Amazon River, like the Patagonian region shared by Argentina and Chile: https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/middleeas...spartanntp, https://books.google.com/books?id=sSr8AA...ar&f=false Patagonian cougar in southern South America by Ingo Arndt:  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (02-21-2020, 08:43 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(02-20-2020, 10:45 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(02-20-2020, 10:28 PM)Pckts Wrote: Huge Female Patagonia's cougar should be close but I'd still put my money on N. American Cougars being even larger just because of the multitude of prey items. But regardless, both have the largest Cougars on Earth. (02-21-2020, 08:43 PM), BorneanTiger Wrote:(02-20-2020, 10:45 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:(02-20-2020, 10:28 PM)Pckts Wrote: Huge Female Yeah with no competition of prey with jags they are quite large in Patagonia as well ( I think the only biome I know that these 2 cats overlap in territory with both cats on MINIMUN difference in size is in Caatinga due to the extreme hot, tough, drought seasons environment making only the toughest animals able to survive there, jags in caatinga being the smallest are still a bit more robust than pumas but the difference is much smaller than when you campare both cats in other biomes ) anyways back to the main topic in Peru there are some large pumas too and yeah you're right I agree here in the southern part of america pumas can also reach their size potential too but I still think the ones in the northern part of america continent have a slight edge in size specially the ones from Canada those are monsters mountain lions. 
PUMAS IN PATAGONIA AND CANADA
Over the years, I saw a number of documentaries on pumas in Canada, Chili, the USA (Florida, Texas and Oregon) and Patagonia. The largest pumas I saw were from Patagonia. In one documentary, researchers measured a female and three nearly full-grown cubs in an elevated region. The adult female was the longest I saw by a margin. A few weeks ago, I saw 'Wild Patagonia' (BBC). It has 3 parts. In the last episode, a biologist (or ranger) was briefly interviewed. When the BBC-crew asked him about problems, he said they had recently seen a 'huge' male puma. The advice was to stay away from him. Based on what I saw, I'd say he, regarding his size, hadn't exaggerated. The male was different from pumas in other regions. Apart from the colour (quite pale), he was much more robust than all other male pumas I had seen. The skull also seemed different (relatively larger). In 'The puma - Mysterious American cat' (S.P. Young and E.A. Goldman, 1946), one can find reliable information about the size of pumas in different regions. Three females shot near Santa Cruz (Argentina) well over a century ago were 6.10 (208,28 cm.), 7.6 (228,60 cm.) and 7.8 (233,698 cm.) in total length, whereas a male shot near lake Argentina was 8.1 (246,38 cm.). My guess is they were measured 'over curves', but Goldman (pp. 191-192) offers no specifics on the method used. Skull measurements are more reliable. The tables in the book mentioned above (pp. 269-276), although based on a limited number of specimens (referring to skulls from the southern part of Argentina in particular), suggest there's little to choose between Patagonian pumas (Felis concolor pearsoni) and Colorado pumas (Felis concolor hippolestes). In length and width, skulls of pumas shot in British Columbia, Oregon and Colorado roughly compared to those of pumas shot near Rio Coy (Argentina), but the dentition in the skulls of pearsoni was heavier. The longest skull (237 mm. in greatest total length) was from a male shot near Meeker, Colorado. He was 227 pounds (102,96 kg.). Two other males also shot in the vicinity of Meeker were 164 (74,39 kg.) and 160 (72,57 kg.) pounds. Skulls of adult females only very seldom reach 200 mm. in greatest total length. The only 2 slightly exceeding that mark were from Meeker, Colorado and Coy Inlet, Argentina (pp. 273-276). The dentition in the skulls of pearsoni, again, is heavier. Skulls of pumas shot in the northern part of the USA and Canada are more rounded and a few mm. wider than skulls of pumas shot in the southern part of Argentina, whereas the rostrum often is a bit longer and wider in Patagonian skulls. In Patagonian skulls, the zygomata gradually converge towards the rostrum. In skulls from pumas shot in the northern part of the USA, in contrast, the angle between the rostrum and the zygomata is more acute. For this reason, skulls from pumas shot in the southern part of Argentina seem closer to skulls of lions and tigers, whereas skulls from pumas shot in the northern part of the USA seem closer to those of small cats (more rounded).
Not something to smile about, but a large Canadian puma next to a human in Vancouver Island: http://www.canadianguideoutfitters.com/h...n_lion.php
Bulky N. American Tom
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
  *This image is copyright of its original author Skull of female F15 (105 months old) killed by a male puma when she was defending its kill and Skull of male M22 killed by other male in a territorial figh.Pumas studied in Dan Andres Mountains, New Mexico, USA Book Desert Puma - Evolutionary Ecology and Conservation of an Enduring Carnivore (Kenneth A. Logan and Linda L. Sweanor)  *This image is copyright of its original author
(02-24-2020, 09:25 PM)epaiva Wrote: Wait a minute, does this mean that pumas can bite through each others' skulls, therefore that the jaguar isn't the only cat that can kill by biting through the skull?  (02-23-2020, 10:16 AM)peter Wrote: PUMAS IN PATAGONIA AND CANADA Interesting evaluation @peter. In fact, I also see some diferences between the two populations (north vs south) based in the pictures, been the north cats more "cat like" and those from the south more "Panthera like". The color of the fur is also different, but there is no doubth that these two forms represent the biggest that this specie can get. Based in the few images that I have saw from camera traps and those in the Zoo, I can tell you that the pumas from Guatemala looks more like those from the north, although smaller and with a lesser frame. (02-24-2020, 10:32 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(02-24-2020, 09:25 PM)epaiva Wrote: I posted an Image of a Wild Boar skull with puncture marks from a Tiger as well. Most cats should be able to bite through a skull, especially a smaller one like this Female Puma or the Young Boar I posted. Jaguars actively use that method to kill prey often where as other cats do not. But that doesn't mean that other cats can't implement that technique as well but they're not as equipped to do it as jaguars are. *Largest bite force lb for lb and more robust canines lb for lb* (02-24-2020, 10:32 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Wait a minute, does this mean that pumas can bite through each others' skulls, therefore that the jaguar isn't the only cat that can kill by biting through the skull? Tigers, lions and leopards can also bite through the skull. Actually all Panthera cats can do it and they also kill in that form. The issue is that the jaguar addapted this like a normal hunting technique while the other cats just use it very rarely as they normally use the bite in the neck and nape and the bite in the muzzle (the kiss of death), depending of the size of the prey.
@Pckts, pound for pound, I think clouded leopard would give jaguars a run for their money in the most robust canine department. They easily have the largest canine in the whole felidae family proportional to body size. And, for a small animal, they possess a heck of a bite force. I am not entirely sure on bite size quotient and their metrics, but if you do agree with this form of measurement, Jaguars and Clouded Leopards are equal at 137.
In fact, one of the most challenging parts of rearing clouded leopards in captivity is the male killing the female during mating as his canine severs arteries and other blood vessels in the female’s neck when he bites or clamps down. They might look all cute, but they are vicious as in a documentary they showed how it mauled a dog (which was just as big as the clouded leopard).
Clouded leopards have the longest lb for lb but not most robust, to my knowledge.
If their bite force is comparable to Jaguars at a lb for lb level that would be incredible but they do resemble Jaguars muscular jaw structure from the outside but their skulls don't look as oversized as Jaguars do imo. |
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