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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Printable Version

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RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-04-2020

@"OncaAtrox" 

Jaguars are really interesting creatures, we never know what they're thinking even on a perfect enviornment ( through our eyes ) they may still find difficuties to reside the area it could be smell of another male or another annoyance for the animal we can't see, the Aurora jaguars avoid the cattles unlike the southern cerrado population which also got pretty good prey base in PNE and yet prefer the ranch areas, I think that one thing to bear in mind before starting jaguar conservations is to be expecting anything from them, jaguars are good at surprising researchers in many ways haha.

It wouldn't surprise me if jaguars in Llanos are preying on the wild horses, I am more than curious to find out as well. Llanos area should be studied ASAP.


By the way are you gonna watch Leandro's upcoming live of just answering questions?? I got 2 questions regarding Rogério cerrado male's weight obviously and also regarding modern cerrado jaguars average size but it'll be a war getting through the comment section among tons of people.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-04-2020

I have major doubts that Horses make up a significant amount of Jaguar prey base. 
Horses are very alert and can be quite dangerous, Jaguars with any sufficient natural prey base would not to test itself with such a dangerous animal often. It'd be a specialized cat and probably wouldn't happen often.
In regards to Aurora Jaguars size, we've already had scientists from Aurora in the S. Pantanal and they told Edu that Pantanal Males were larger.
You guys should ask him about it if you get a chance.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

@Pckts so far Panthera has not conducted any captures so it's hard to gage if they are bigger or smaller. We'll need concrete data for that. They're just a very understudied population as a whole compared to other jaguars.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 09:17 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @Pckts so far Panthera has not conducted any captures so it's hard to gage if they are bigger or smaller. We'll need concrete data for that. They're just a very understudied population as a whole compared to other jaguars.

We still have one male captured with a weight of 93kg and while this eye witness accounts isn't verified you can generally tell when you view animals up close which is larger. Especially if you spend many years with them like they do in Aurora and the Pantanal.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

@Pckts I have asked Ricardo Ortiz who works for Panthera Colombia and has done tracking in Pantanal as well about his opinion on the matter. I'll share here what he says.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 09:25 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @Pckts I have asked Ricardo Ortiz who works for Panthera Colombia and has done tracking in Pantanal as well about his opinion on the matter. I'll share here what he says.

Can you also ask him what parts of the Pantanal has he viewed Jaguars in.
If he's been to North and South, can you ask him the differences between the two species, if any as well?


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-04-2020

@Pckts 

We're not comparing which population is larger on this subject we're just finding each areas prey base is enough to see if they can grow to large extant.

Horses are fast as hell for sure but if a determined large Llanos male jaguar get hold of one through ambush I am sure it can westle it down through brute force and get the job done imo, they most likely avoid preying horses but it wouldn't surprise me if I run into horses predation case even if 2-3 cases, these jags surprise every single day .


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 09:34 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @Pckts 

We're not comparing which population is larger on this subject we're just finding each areas prey base is enough to see if they can grow to large extant.

Horses are fast as hell for sure but if a determined large Llanos male jaguar get hold of one through ambush I am sure it can westle it down through brute force and get the job done imo, they most likely avoid preying horses but it wouldn't surprise me if I run into horses predation case even if 2-3 cases, these jags surprise every single day .

Not only are horses fast but they are smart and very aggressive.
If you hear people discuss Zebra in Africa they always say that the Zebra are much harder to prey on for Lions than Wildebeest. And this is for numerous reasons, 1st being that Zebra are very away and smart, they always say Wildebeest are "dumb", 2nd is the aggressive nature of Zebras, they are very tough fighters when pushed to a corner and Lions will have a tough time killing them if the Zebra is in a possession to fight back.
Which is why I'm putting horses in that same category as Zebra and not to mention that Horses, depending on the breed can be even larger than Zebra are.
But certainly if a determined, big male Jag gets a hold of a Horse, it has the ability to kill it.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-04-2020

@Pckts
Yeah I know but Lioness prey on zebras and I know they're more adapted to hunting them than a jaguar and most cases lioness are in group but if a lioness sized, muscular Llanos male jaguar manage to take it down it can get the job done but it will be hard to take it down for sure and the jag also may come out of it injured, I am not saying it happens regularly but it may happen and I wouldn't be surprised at all if I run into cases of it.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

Btw, for anybody interested in reading more about hato La Aurora, here is a great article: https://news.mongabay.com/2012/05/pictures-jaguar-bonanza-caught-on-camera/


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-06-2020

2 more cerrado male jags from early 2000.

The 2 adult cerrado male jaguars from the infanticide case and study captured at PNE in around 2001 are ready to join the Cerrado jag table.


ID                    Age             Weight          Source         Area          Year            
M01                 Ad                90kg              IOP            PNE          2001
M02                 Ad                105kg            IOP            PNE          2001




https://www.scielo.br/pdf/gmb/v29n4/32128.pdf



*This image is copyright of its original author






*This image is copyright of its original author




Learn more about the whole infantice case of the cerrado jaguars on my post #57 in the ''Jaguars of Brazil'' thread.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-08-2020

Ricardo Ortiz had this to say about Aurora/Pantanal jaguars:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Translation: "the Jaguars from Aurora are big, but the ones from Pantanal are bigger due to the prey they consume, cheers!"

He also did tracking of jaguars in the south of Pantanal un Mato Grosso do Sul

I asked him is he could estimate the weight of some males in the area, this was his answer:


*This image is copyright of its original author


"I estimate an adult male from that area to weight between 90 to 110 kg"

So it seems like Aurora jaguars are more similar in size to Cerrado jaguars based on his opinion! Nonetheless I will be expectant for when they start doing captures.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-08-2020

(06-08-2020, 02:44 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Ricardo Ortiz had this to say about Aurora/Pantanal jaguars:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Translation: "the Jaguars from Aurora are big, but the ones from Pantanal are bigger due to the prey they consume, cheers!"

He also did tracking of jaguars in the south of Pantanal un Mato Grosso do Sul

I asked him is he could estimate the weight of some males in the area, this was his answer:


*This image is copyright of its original author


"I estimate an adult male from that area to weight between 90 to 110 kg"

So it seems like Aurora jaguars are more similar in size to Cerrado jaguars based on his opinion! Nonetheless I will be expectant for when they start doing captures.

Nice info on the Aurora jags they seem to be similar to Cerrado jaguars and both will surprise us for sure. do you know if there was any register of melanistic jaguar in Llanos overall??


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-08-2020

(06-08-2020, 02:57 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(06-08-2020, 02:44 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Ricardo Ortiz had this to say about Aurora/Pantanal jaguars:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Translation: "the Jaguars from Aurora are big, but the ones from Pantanal are bigger due to the prey they consume, cheers!"

He also did tracking of jaguars in the south of Pantanal un Mato Grosso do Sul

I asked him is he could estimate the weight of some males in the area, this was his answer:


*This image is copyright of its original author


"I estimate an adult male from that area to weight between 90 to 110 kg"

So it seems like Aurora jaguars are more similar in size to Cerrado jaguars based on his opinion! Nonetheless I will be expectant for when they start doing captures.

Nice info on the Aurora jags they seem to be similar to Cerrado jaguars and both will surprise us for sure. do you know if there was any register of melanistic jaguar in Llanos overall??

So far I haven't seen any jaguars from the region in melanistic form so I doubt they're present. 

I'm also even more curious now to know about the ecology of these jaguars in terms of prey, he is the second person from Panthera to tell me that these jaguars feed of different species than Pantanal ones, so I wonder if they are targetting capybara in more frequency than caiman. That being said I still believe a large jaguar like Caricare could comfortably be above 120 kg. This other beast from the Llanos was captured on a different area from Aurora, I'm dying wanting to know about their measurements.


*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-08-2020

(06-08-2020, 03:03 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(06-08-2020, 02:57 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(06-08-2020, 02:44 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Ricardo Ortiz had this to say about Aurora/Pantanal jaguars:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Translation: "the Jaguars from Aurora are big, but the ones from Pantanal are bigger due to the prey they consume, cheers!"

He also did tracking of jaguars in the south of Pantanal un Mato Grosso do Sul

I asked him is he could estimate the weight of some males in the area, this was his answer:


*This image is copyright of its original author


"I estimate an adult male from that area to weight between 90 to 110 kg"

So it seems like Aurora jaguars are more similar in size to Cerrado jaguars based on his opinion! Nonetheless I will be expectant for when they start doing captures.

Nice info on the Aurora jags they seem to be similar to Cerrado jaguars and both will surprise us for sure. do you know if there was any register of melanistic jaguar in Llanos overall??

So far I haven't seen any jaguars from the region in melanistic form so I doubt they're present. 

I'm also even more curious now to know about the ecology of these jaguars in terms of prey, he is the second person from Panthera to tell me that these jaguars feed of different species than Pantanal ones, so I wonder if they are targetting capybara in more frequency than caiman. That being said I still believe a large jaguar like Caricare could comfortably be above 120 kg. This other beast from the Llanos was captured on a different area from Aurora, I'm dying wanting to know about their measurements.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Let's see with Rafael on the live tomorrow if he knows something regarding the weight of the captured one.

By the way just to let you know in advance I've been in contact with master Peter Crawshaw himself on private conversations lately but I will tell about this in details soon in the Jaguars of Brazil thread. I gotta post something else before this because its a consequence of this post.

Rafael's live of tomorrow will be amazing. Happy