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+--- Thread: Fall of Mapogos Lions (/topic-fall-of-mapogos-lions)
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - LionKiss - 11-17-2016
it is obvious that the Mapogos were deeply hated for killing so many other lions that lead to a diminishing lion population and people were very happy to see MrT dying and the Mapogos fall and the new very promising coalition, the Selatis, arriving ready to populate the area with tens of new lions.
Things did not work out that way and now the Sealtis and their 3 Xihmungwe youngsters are up north in Manyeleti.
What an embarrassment for the author of this article
and in fact those who populate the area are the Lionesses of the Mangheni pride the daughters of MrT and KT.
There is too much hypocrisy,
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - Tshokwane - 11-17-2016
(11-17-2016, 05:22 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Just did a keyword search. Is this the article that's been excerpted from?
Yes. That is the original article, but the excerpt is from this article by Londolozi, that's basically a repost from the one you linked: Lion Warfare – The End of an Era
What is most lovely about it, and you saw this in LionKiss question, is that the ones who get called "haters" and get the blame are the people of Londolozi, when in fact the ones who wrote it are the people in the west of the Sabi Sands.
And again, and I can't stress this enough, their stance is purely from an biological and ecological point of view, nothing more, in fact they make sure to remark they would miss the coalition.
@Pckts assesment is perfectly on point in their case.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - LionKiss - 11-18-2016
(11-17-2016, 05:24 PM)Majingilane Wrote: And again, and I can't stress this enough, their stance is purely from an biological and ecological point of view, nothing more, in fact they make sure to remark they would miss the coalition.
their stance is purely from the money-point of view, they wanted to have several nice and quiet coalitions for the visitors to watch.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - fursan syed - 11-18-2016
Exactly @LionKiss . They are there for buisness sabi sands is a buisness place of land owners you gonna pay if you want to visit different lodge areas. You cant go to elephant plains to leopard hills unless you have to pay for that. Mapogos are bad for their buisness.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - Pckts - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 12:05 AM)LionKiss Wrote:(11-17-2016, 05:24 PM)Majingilane Wrote: And again, and I can't stress this enough, their stance is purely from an biological and ecological point of view, nothing more, in fact they make sure to remark they would miss the coalition.
their stance is purely from the money-point of view, they wanted to have several nice and quiet coalitions for the visitors to watch.
This is an unfounded statement to be honest.
Your interpretation of the situation doesn't hold water over what actually occurred. I have news for you, a large coalition of prime males will draw in far more visitors than not. Add to that, a coalition of aggressive males that have had their entire history monitored, only makes them more attractive to tourists.
Their death is the same as any other lions death... Infighting and Human Interference. They aren't the first to be hunted or killed by man and beast nor will they be the last, there isn't some big conspiracy to remove them, it happened naturally, or as naturally as it can happen now a days.
Sorry, but it really seems like a few of you guys prefer to find some sort of conspiracy theory with the death of a single lion coalition over accepting the fact that they failed as a group to protect their genes. Only one is proven, the other is more of a fanatical stance. No offense, but that is how it appears to me.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - Apollo - 11-18-2016
There are so many lion coalitions that died infighting and human intervention. But the very fact that we've been talking about Mapogos in so many threads stands as a living testimony to show how famous they are.
The documented life history of Mapogos made them famous and attracted tourists, photographers and film makers from all over the world.
Everyone wants to see the lion coalition which killed hundreds of their own kind and this fame might have helped in boosting the tourism (just like people flooded kanha to see munna or ranthambore to see machali (RIP)).
If that area is legal caned lion hunting grounds then Mapogos killing spree means bad for hunting business.
As @Pckts said "the fact that they failed as a group to protect their genes." , made me to think that is it possible for few of the Mapogo males to be mentally unstable due to the fact of their abnormal behaviour which is kind of rare and counter productive for a coalition of males. Based on what Ive read some of the Mapogos did enjoy killing just like some human serial or psychopathic killers. Is it possible for some wild animals to have such mental issues ?
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - LionKiss - 11-18-2016
all it matters is the motive for killing a lion,
many lions have been killed by Trophy Hunters, their heads are cut off and sold,
but this is not the case for the mapogos,
mapogos were hated for killing so many other animals and the sooner they disappear the better.
the chances to see MrT and KT in a huge area are by far smaller than if you have in the same area 3-4 coalitions of 8 lions, don't you think so?
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - fursan syed - 11-18-2016
@Apollo yes its true that mapogos showed some abnormal behavior such as killing more than 100 lions is not normal lion coalition behavior . Also Mr T known for killing lioness and mated with her dead body. I also read about it Mr T mating behavior is very aggresive . The lionesses mr t mated with are seen badly injured many times after mating. also they killed there own offsprings numerous times not only Mr T did it in 2010 but they all also killed there own cubs in 2008. They are truely a exceptional case.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - LionKiss - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 02:25 AM)Pckts Wrote: Your interpretation of the situation doesn't hold water over what actually occurred. I have news for you, a large coalition of prime males will draw in far more visitors than not. Add to that, a coalition of aggressive males that have had their entire history monitored, only makes them more attractive to tourists.
Their death is the same as any other lions death... Infighting and Human Interference. They aren't the first to be hunted or killed by man and beast nor will they be the last, there isn't some big conspiracy to remove them, it happened naturally, or as naturally as it can happen now a days.
Sorry, but it really seems like a few of you guys prefer to find some sort of conspiracy theory with the death of a single lion coalition over accepting the fact that they failed as a group to protect their genes. Only one is proven, the other is more of a fanatical stance. No offense, but that is how it appears to me.
you have no idea what occured because you were not present, and no one was.
KT and MrT was a coalition of 2 controlling an area now controlled by 8 at least males
so the chances to see 2 males in Djuma,Malamala, EP, Symababili, londolozi is by far less than to see one of the 4 BBoys in Djuma, so this argument of yours is also wrong.
No there is no conspiracy theory, they are bad for business so let them sleep with the fishes (you know the expression) and killing a lion in SA is legal, what conspiracy? I can pay 50K and kill a lion, you can do the same.
Their genes are all over Sabi Sands, directly or indirectly and if you want to learn something just listen: It is the lionesses who pass the strength to the offspring. So mahngeni and othawa lionesses have secured that.
But the Mapogos and especially MrT and KT would care less to pass over their genes all they wanted is to win, conquer and control.
We are not fanatics simply you don't understand what those 2 lions wanted and this has been proved by their way they lived and died.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - LionKiss - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 12:42 PM)fursan syed Wrote: @Apollo yes its true that mapogos showed some abnormal behavior such as killing more than 100 lions is not normal lion coalition behavior . Also Mr T known for killing lioness and mated with her dead body. I also read about it Mr T mating behavior is very aggresive . The lionesses mr t mated with are seen badly injured many times after mating. also they killed there own offsprings numerous times not only Mr T did it in 2010 but they all also killed there own cubs in 2008. They are truely a exceptional case.
eventually it would have come to an end, all lions die sometime and all Mapogos would have died or killed in a fair fight with other younger lions
I don't consider unfair a fight 1 vs 4, it is up to the single lion to stay or not.
an unfair fight is when human mess with the lions
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - Apollo - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 12:42 PM)fursan syed Wrote: @Apollo yes its true that mapogos showed some abnormal behavior such as killing more than 100 lions is not normal lion coalition behavior . Also Mr T known for killing lioness and mated with her dead body. I also read about it Mr T mating behavior is very aggresive . The lionesses mr t mated with are seen badly injured many times after mating. also they killed there own offsprings numerous times not only Mr T did it in 2010 but they all also killed there own cubs in 2008. They are truely a exceptional case.
Very exceptional behaviour indeed.
Thanks for sharing.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - Pckts - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 12:24 PM)LionKiss Wrote: all it matters is the motive for killing a lion,
many lions have been killed by Trophy Hunters, their heads are cut off and sold,
but this is not the case for the mapogos,
mapogos were hated for killing so many other animals and the sooner they disappear the better.
the chances to see MrT and KT in a huge area are by far smaller than if you have in the same area 3-4 coalitions of 8 lions, don't you think so?
There was only 3 other males or so in the area that they took over according to the article. The mapogos also dispersed into a couple of prides as well. I'd say the chances of seeing a couple of healthy, prime males together was more coveted than one male.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - fursan syed - 11-19-2016
@Pckts only 2 mapogos kt and Mr T defeated 2 manyalelti males, 2 gijima males, 2 golf course males, Rollercoaster males, 2 unknown nomadics, 3 toulon males, 2 nomadics again and then again 2 nomadics. then majingilanes in day battle. killed one majingilane in day battle. read my posts in mapogos thread. all these coalitions are defeated by only 2 mapogos.. and more unknown lion causalities occurs on that time by only these 2 males
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - fursan syed - 11-19-2016
@Pckts Kinky tail chased 4 majingilane on his own and died fighting.
RE: Fall of Mapogos Lions - fursan syed - 11-19-2016
also see how many lion coalitions now controlling the area that kt and T controlled with an iron paw.