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+----- Thread: The Tumbela Coalition (/topic-the-tumbela-coalition)
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - 1ofCourage - 07-31-2022
(07-31-2022, 08:16 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(07-31-2022, 07:56 PM)1ofCourage Wrote: When the Tintswalo males took over and Red Road lost many of his 17 cubs and one lioness, he moved his pride way down south. They went so fast and far it nearly killed his remaining cubs. A very much needed buffalo meal saved the weakest of them for sure.
Since then RR has moved the pride constantly. I believe it’s his #1 tactic for protection. He does patrol and behave as a territorial male, but not when it’s 4:1.
He seems to have a much bigger area than
Socorro Jr had. He had more choices.
Male lions dont "move" the prides, prides operate on the borders of their territorial male/coalition.
When RRM clashed with Tintswalos, it was Nharus who moved south to avoid Tintswalos, as RRM went silent, then RRM rejoin them when he recovered.
That Sir, is your opinion. One which I don't hold at all. I am speaking of an earlier clash when he had 17 cubs. It is all documented on Youtube.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Tr1x24 - 07-31-2022
@Wyld@Heart very well said.
There is no such thing as being territorial male and keeping low profile/not roaring/not scent making.
That male is then not territorial, yet semi-nomad/nomad.
Whole pourpose of roaring and scent marking is to keep intruders out, give them to knowledge that this area is taken.
For example, Skorro Jr. keeping low profile is clear sign for PC males and NK/Nhenha males that this land is not occupied and for taking.
If territorial male gets invaded by bigger/stronger coalition/male , well, thats how it is, he needs to fight or flee, he cant keep low profile, because they will take his territory anyways and he cant be territorial male on other coalitions/male territory, he is nomad then, and will most likely leave this territory for search of new opportunities, or get chased out.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - BA0701 - 07-31-2022
(07-31-2022, 06:36 PM)lionuk Wrote: From 5:52 mark- Skorro jr rejoined the Othawa Pride
...and here I thought they had those full bellies from a wildebeest kill. Nope, one wildebeest wasn't nearly enough, they had to catch a buffalo too. Interesting foursome they have created, the possibilities are fascinating.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Duco Ndona - 07-31-2022
All this talk about how males need to roar to claim a territory and such is nice and all for groups that still have have one. But how is it going to help Skorro or the Othowas? Who already lost large portions of territory and a pride even while doing all that territorial stuff.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Wyld@Heart - 07-31-2022
(07-31-2022, 08:18 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Males are not the cornerstones of lion dynamics. They are not their leader or anything like that. The pride will remain just as stable if he is there than if he wasn't. Especially a well oiled experienced pride like the Othowas.Then with all due respect, I'm afraid you don't have much experience or knowledge of how it actually works in reality. There is no pride without a stable pride male, it's absolutely the cornerstone of lion dynamics because of the way males are hardwired in that they will instinctively kill off cubs and sub adults to bring the lionesses into estrus and then to mate. Their duty, and their normal instinct, will be to remain in that territory even while expanding and that alone provides the stability that a pride needs to grow its cubs.
Males come and go, prides in a territory can stay for generations but if you take territorial males out of the equation the constant influx of new males will be deadly to cubs, prides will be forced to become nomadic more and more to save their cubs causing a domino affect and conflict as different prides start coming into contact leading to constant stress and further loss of cubs. The whole pride and territorial system will collapse.
All of this is known.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Duco Ndona - 07-31-2022
That's just hyper focusing on just one aspect of lion society while completely ignoring the others.
Al a coalition does is protect a pride and thats it.
The prides hunt for food, raise the cubs and teach them how to hunt etc. They also share in the protection of the cubs as well.
Its like saying that the military is the most important part of a nation because they protect it. But without a stable government, food production, economy and education system. There just isn't a nation.
We have seen prides being able to protect their cubs for a year without male protection. But have we ever seen a male coalition raise cubs without lionesses?
Nor do nomadic prides wander around. Even in those circumstances they will stick to their own land to avoid conflicts with other prides.
So the idea of somekind of domino effect of prides attacking prides is far fetched too.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - afortich - 07-31-2022
(07-31-2022, 04:09 PM)Wyld@Heart Wrote:Agree!!(07-30-2022, 03:55 PM)Bellateda Wrote: The question is, is his return a good thing or bad for the pride? If he can't defend them, then he is useless, he will just attract more attention and get their food.
He's a powerful male lion in his prime. Under pressure from numerically more powerful coalitions to be sure but it's not 1 v 3 or 4 but 1 v 2 either way. If it comes to it and he comes against just a single male from one of the rival coalitions it's likely the pride will back him up as well for the sake of the pride. It's hardly outside the realms of possibility, it's happened before and will happen again.
On paper it seems a foregone conclusion but these animals don't live on paper; one of the rivals may get separated from his partner, be distracted by another female, get injured... anything can happen, literally. Skorro Jnr is the pride male of this pride, he's hardly useless. His roars alone broadcast that the territory will need to be fought over, a silent land means other males will move in to explore in a matter of when and not if forcing the Othawa's to either give in and lose the cubs or go nomadic. This way, they at least have a chance.
Look, Skorro might get attacked and kicked out anyway and the pride may lose the cubs or go nomadic. It is possible. Thinking of that as the only conclusion, however, is incorrect.
We humans know very little about animal behavior.
Any outcome is possible.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - lionuk - 08-02-2022
"The Tumbela male greatfully accepted a warthog kill from the Othawa pride. He needed some food after his walkabout to the north."
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - lionuk - 08-02-2022
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - afortich - 08-02-2022
(08-02-2022, 02:29 PM)lionuk Wrote: "The Tumbela male greatfully accepted a warthog kill from the Othawa pride. He needed some food after his walkabout to the north."
So glad to see him doing better!!
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - criollo2mil - 08-09-2022
Skorro straight out of his hair dresser appointment :)
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Tr1x24 - 08-09-2022
(08-09-2022, 11:05 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Skorro straight out of his hair dresser appointment :)
He has so fluffy mane, beautiful.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - BigLion39 - 08-10-2022
Yeah he is a stunner for sure!
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - Horizon - 08-21-2022
Yes, he is a stunner. Any idea where he is now? As we know, Othawa pride is teetering on the edge and unfortunately seems he doesn’t have a say on the unfolding events anymore. Did he survive this latest onslaught? Any info from the rangers? Sorry for these questions, guys.
RE: The Tumbela Coalition - T I N O - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 05:28 PM)Horizon Wrote: Yes, he is a stunner. Any idea where he is now? As we know, Othawa pride is teetering on the edge and unfortunately seems he doesn’t have a say on the unfolding events anymore. Did he survive this latest onslaught? Any info from the rangers? Sorry for these questions, guys.
Unfortunately the whereabouts of Skorro (Tumbela) still remains unknown. Hope he didn't meet the same fate of Aunty Othawa. Only time will tell