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+--- Thread: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places (/topic-lion-and-tiger-fight-interaction-in-zoo-circus-or-any-other-captive-places)
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Spalea - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 01:31 AM)paul cooper Wrote:(02-23-2019, 01:22 AM)Spalea Wrote: @paul cooper:
Sorry but I can't see your video, neither on firefox, nor on safari... But, other than that, I believe there is only one lion which enters the tiger's cage. I don't see the lion as an aggressor, the tiger retreats in front of it, and the lions doesn't insist, just starts to eat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfaXWh5Oro
How come it doesnt work? That isnt what is happening in these cages Spalea or any of these vids. The lion is the aggressor in all these videos. Male lions are social animals, as i have already said. Both animals get fed.
https://www.quora.com/Would-a-liger-beat-a-tiger-and-lion-in-fight-at-separate-times/answer/Kizmin-Manhattan
Interesting read from this woman who works in many sanctuaries, and has talked to many keepers on what happens when these animals live together in the same enclosure.
About your link: https://www.quora.com/Would-a-liger-beat-a-tiger-and-lion-in-fight-at-separate-times/answer/Kizmin-Manhattan
Yes, why not ? Comic and caricatured...
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Shadow - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 02:09 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Shadow @paul cooper...
In short, I believe that animals never stop to measure each other. When I say it's blatant that a tiger has bigger front limbs, any lion confronted by a tiger must think "this guy has really very powerful paws !". And thus, it will not seriously get involved in a fight agains a tiger. But it is going to bluff it by intimidating it. And if the tiger chooses to retreat, the lion starts to eat immediately.
The balance of power between lions and tigers is very thin. Instinctively, the lions knows how far to push it without starting a real fight. And perhaps the tiger in front of its determination drops it, gives up, IMO.
Paul Cooper: the video you posted has been posted in the " Zoos, Circuses, Safaris; A Gallery of Captivity " thread at the #1445
Yes, of course when in same cage these animals tend to look who is in charge. And in this zoo there are fights too, tigers front paws etc. aren´t stopping that to happen. When I found more material from this zoo, as I mentioned, I dislike that place a lot. It really is almost like they would hope something serious to happen as we know, that time to time has happened in other places. Of course it is difficult to know too much, when seeing 4-5 videos and all cut in different ways showing parts from here and there. Hopefully that zoo gets a lot of complaints for it how they treat these animals.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Spalea - 02-23-2019
@Shadow :
About #49: Yes, agree with you, the asiatic zoos seem to appreciate confrontations between different animal species. In other words, asiatic zoos are like the european ones during the XIXth century. Barren cages, stressed animals, bad foods and so on...
Do you know this video ? Even in open air, it's scandalous !
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Rishi - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 01:31 AM)paul cooper Wrote: https://www.quora.com/Would-a-liger-beat-a-tiger-and-lion-in-fight-at-separate-times/answer/Kizmin-Manhattan
Interesting read from this woman who works in many sanctuaries, and has talked to many keepers on what happens when these animals live together in the same enclosure.
(02-23-2019, 02:26 AM)Spalea Wrote: About your link: https://www.quora.com/Would-a-liger-beat-a-tiger-and-lion-in-fight-at-separate-times/answer/Kizmin-Manhattan
Yes, why not ? Comic and caricatured...
She answers in a casual manner... But i think that is actually a really good explanation of their behaviour! (plus her credentials would gives her opinions significance)
Can you please invite her to post it here?
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - paul cooper - 02-23-2019
Female tiger and male lion fight.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Spalea - 02-23-2019
@Rishi :
About #49: you said " She answers in a casual manner... But i think that is actually a really good explanation of their behaviour! (plus her credentials would gives her opinions significance) "
Well, when I answered "Comic and caricatured", I didn't think or say it was wrong. Male lion behaves as if the tiger belongs to the group he has in charge, OK... Caricatured because I am not sure that the lion is such a command maniac. I said that the lion gauged and tested the tiger but, IMO, doesn't want too push too far his "pride leader" status (because this striped guy has very powerful paws !...). Thus doesn't absolutely want to put the pressure on the tiger like in this dialog/dialogue.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Shadow - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 10:25 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Rishi :
About #49: you said " She answers in a casual manner... But i think that is actually a really good explanation of their behaviour! (plus her credentials would gives her opinions significance) "
Well, when I answered "Comic and caricatured", I didn't think or say it was wrong. Male lion behaves as if the tiger belongs to the group he has in charge, OK... Caricatured because I am not sure that the lion is such a command maniac. I said that the lion gauged and tested the tiger but, IMO, doesn't want too push too far his "pride leader" status (because this striped guy has very powerful paws !...). Thus doesn't absolutely want to put the pressure on the tiger like in this dialog/dialogue.
When looking at lions and tigers and how they behave, it really doesn´t demand too much understanding to see how tension can be built up between them. One way to do it is like in video you posted, put a male lion and some tiger in small cage and throw in some meat. Male lion will go to eat first and it will be ready to fight for it if any other animal tries to eat before or even same time as it does. So tiger has no options, it can fight or back off, because lion goes for it and makes it clear. That is one reason why I dislike a lot what can be seen in some of these videos.
It can look so smooth thing in some recordings, where these animals can eat side by side, but in those situations there are animals living together from cubs and very used to each others. What comes to real fights, those happens and sometimes lion dies, sometimes tiger. I don´t know what is the big deal in that then, it is as it is. If some fights happen in wildlife, it is up to animals and in that there is no reason to interfere by people, imo. But when people capture and put animals in cages, supervised enclosures, then I think, that people have responsibility to keep animals in good conditions and not putting those in situations, which are obviously creating tension and aggressive behavior.
It is quite clear, that we can see many times how tiger backs off. But then there are also situations where it doesn´t happen and fight, more or less serious one, starts. And this Chinese zoo is obviously one place, where they could and should do things a lot better to avoid those totally unnecessary fights. They really don´t seem to care at all because I just can´t believe, that they would be that ignorant.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - paul cooper - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 10:25 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Rishi :
About #49: you said " She answers in a casual manner... But i think that is actually a really good explanation of their behaviour! (plus her credentials would gives her opinions significance) "
Well, when I answered "Comic and caricatured", I didn't think or say it was wrong. Male lion behaves as if the tiger belongs to the group he has in charge, OK... Caricatured because I am not sure that the lion is such a command maniac. I said that the lion gauged and tested the tiger but, IMO, doesn't want too push too far his "pride leader" status (because this striped guy has very powerful paws !...). Thus doesn't absolutely want to put the pressure on the tiger like in this dialog/dialogue.
It just sums up how the two animals live together. I have no clue why you taking it so seriously, that isnt something that happens every minute of the day. She is just saying what the animals do when they interact. It sends a message and that message hurts people that are deep into myth.
The tiger has no option but to let the lion eat and wait to get fed by the keeper (as the tiger knows that it will get fed, they arent competing for the food). What is going to happen? You cant expect the tiger to fight. If the tiger is being starved, then he will fight to kill the lion, tigers dont live in same social dynamics as lions and are solitary animals. Again.. read Kizmans post, that is basically what she is trying to say.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Sanju - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 02:17 PM)paul cooper Wrote: The tiger has no option but to let the lion eat and wait to get fed by the keeper (as the tiger knows that it will get fed, they arent competing for the food). What is going to happen? You cant expect the tiger to fight. If the tiger is being starved, then he will fight to kill the lion, tigers dont live in same social dynamics as lions and are solitary animals.I agree.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Shadow - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 02:26 PM)Sanju Wrote:(02-23-2019, 02:17 PM)paul cooper Wrote: The tiger has no option but to let the lion eat and wait to get fed by the keeper (as the tiger knows that it will get fed, they arent competing for the food). What is going to happen? You cant expect the tiger to fight. If the tiger is being starved, then he will fight to kill the lion, tigers dont live in same social dynamics as lions and are solitary animals. Again.. read Kizmans post, that is basically what she is trying to say.I agree.
There is one difference in behavior naturally. Lion will fight for food, starving or not, if not just eaten. It is just how it does it. Tiger should be a really really confident individual to challenge a lion in these circumstances and it is very hard to be that when other animal is showing, that it won´t back down without a fight, no matter what. In that way lion is somewhat different and really forcing tiger to back off many times.
Of course if there is a tiger not backing off for some reason, then fight happens and result can be anything, impossible to know when two animals so equals in size and strength go for it. Of course lion fanboys scream how lion always win and tiger fanboys have same determination to say just the opposite. If just both groups would have same determination to send complaints to places, where these both magnificent animals are mistreated like can be seen in many videos..... maybe then those zoo keepers would be irritated enough to have some focus to change something.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Spalea - 02-23-2019
@
About #53: I have to acknowledge your explanation is the good one and the most complete.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Rage2277 - 02-23-2019
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - phatio - 02-24-2019
(02-23-2019, 12:08 AM)Spalea Wrote: An other one video... But I'm not agree with the title, the reality is more complex than that.
i'm surprised nobody noticed they are completely different tigers and lions. i suggest to check and recheck again before making any conclusion, especially from these kind of video. i mean, when we feels the uploader is a highly biased fanboy (from both tiger and lion side) the video they uploaded usually short and/or highly edited to fulfill their propaganda.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - paul cooper - 02-24-2019
(02-24-2019, 12:25 PM)phatio Wrote:(02-23-2019, 12:08 AM)Spalea Wrote: An other one video... But I'm not agree with the title, the reality is more complex than that.
i'm surprised nobody noticed they are completely different tigers and lions. i suggest to check and recheck again before making any conclusion, especially from these kind of video. i mean, when we feels the uploader is a highly biased fanboy (from both tiger and lion side) the video they uploaded usually short and/or highly edited to fulfill their propaganda.
You can even see the food pile that adam points out is in complete different places in the enclosure in the different scenes.
RE: Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places - Shadow - 02-25-2019
(02-24-2019, 12:25 PM)phatio Wrote:(02-23-2019, 12:08 AM)Spalea Wrote: An other one video... But I'm not agree with the title, the reality is more complex than that.
i'm surprised nobody noticed they are completely different tigers and lions. i suggest to check and recheck again before making any conclusion, especially from these kind of video. i mean, when we feels the uploader is a highly biased fanboy (from both tiger and lion side) the video they uploaded usually short and/or highly edited to fulfill their propaganda.
Good notice, that tiger was changed in the middle of the video :) These fanboy posters as the one who posted that video in youtube are more or less ridiculous. The way how they give names to clips and how they write descriptions aren´t even funny anymore even though can´t be taken seriously too.
This tiger in the start of this video is actually on one other video and fighting there with the lion. This zoo seems to be, as I said before, a total disgrace among zoos, There are many short recordings, where tiger and lion and lion and lion are in one of these small cages and gate out is closed. This zoo really should be identified and the information sent to some international organization, like WWF. With question, that is there anything they could do for these animals and for conditions they are kept in this "zoo".
I guess, that they put all of these big cats one by one in cages with some other and watch what happens. Or at least biggest and/or most aggressive ones. Real shame.