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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 04-07-2023

I'm not sure anyone can answer this but I'll try asking anyway...


Was the Charleston pride a Ximhungwe Breakaway pride? I'm asking this because it is said the Rollercoaster malea came from the west and "from the Ximhungwe pride", however it is known from their interactions in Mala Mala that the RC males were brothers of the Charleston females so if they were truly born in the Ximhungwe pride it must mean the Charlestons females also did.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Ttimemarti - 04-07-2023

(04-07-2023, 10:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm not sure anyone can answer this but I'll try asking anyway...


Was the Charleston pride a Ximhungwe Breakaway pride? I'm asking this because it is said the Rollercoaster malea came from the west and "from the Ximhungwe pride", however it is known from their interactions in Mala Mala that the RC males were brothers of the Charleston females so if they were truly born in the Ximhungwe pride it must mean the Charlestons females also did.

If I could add something to this there was a pride called the ravenscourt pride did that pride go extinct or I heard the last female joined the ximhungwe pride no sure which is true

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 04-07-2023

(04-07-2023, 10:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Was the Charleston pride a Ximhungwe Breakaway pride? I'm asking this because it is said the Rollercoaster malea came from the west and "from the Ximhungwe pride", however it is known from their interactions in Mala Mala that the RC males were brothers of the Charleston females so if they were truly born in the Ximhungwe pride it must mean the Charlestons females also did.

Where did you get info that they where brothers to Charleston females? Never heard of it.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 04-07-2023

(04-07-2023, 10:04 AM)afortich Wrote:
(04-07-2023, 08:00 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: First pic is 1/2 PC males, second one is the Tumbela male, I believe.


The Tumbela male looks a little too blondie. Anyway, I'm not good at recognizing these guys Wink

It’s Skorro.

Looks like Mak’s face is all scarred up too.    Hmmmmmm

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 04-07-2023

@Tr1x24 from MalaMala reports on the RC males. MM speculates multiple times in their reports saying they believed RCs were brothers of the Charleston females due to their multiple unusual interactions.

Although being technically enemies ( as the Charleston pride was under control of different males ) every time the RCs arrived in the area where the Charleston pride was, the females didn't react, they weren't worried in the slightest and would continue to chill like if nothing was happening, they never showed any fear from the RCs like MM points out. RCs would also never attack them or try to take over.

There was even an instance where one of the Charleston females saw the RC male in a kill with his Styx pride and tried to join him but she was chased off, not by the RC male but by the Styx pride.

The dominant males of the Charleston pride were always cautious and anxious with the presence of the RCs and were chased once when both prides and dominant males met together, but RCs never showed hostility to the females themselves.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 04-08-2023

I know someone recently asked about the Tsalala female.





RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 04-08-2023

(04-08-2023, 02:05 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote: I know someone recently asked about the Tsalala female.




I love princess Tsalala, she's made it so far without mom. Wishing her to find friends and form a pride soon!!

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - WildLeonis - 04-08-2023

Interesting that she’s roaring and doesn’t have a pride to go to. My understanding is lone males roar to announce their presence, keep other males away and/or if they’re looking for their pride. 

Never seen a lone female call, with no one to call to. Though I’m sure it’s happened many times. I wonder what’s her reasoning for calling? Looking for a mate? Anyway, I’m amazed that she’s done so well on her own. Hopefully she’ll continue to succeed.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - KNPLimper - 04-08-2023

The Castleton pride dominated western Sabi Sands.  The Ravenscourt pride was a breakaway pride that later rejoined the Castleton pride after their numbers were depleted.  The Tsalala pride was a breakaway pride of the Castleton pride as well.  A lone female of the Tsalala pride actually joined the Castleton pride during sub-adulthood.  The Rollercoaster/Shaws males were born into the Castleton pride in 1996.  They were fathered by the West Street males.  The oldest female in the ximhungwe pride is the last member of the Castleton pride.  She was fathered by the Southern Males.  The RC males sired the Golf Course males and the Golf Course males sired the Southern Males.  I am not sure about the direct connection between the RC males and the Charleston pride.  However, the Souther pride and Charleston pride were bitter enemies.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 04-08-2023

(04-08-2023, 05:44 PM)WildLeonis Wrote: Never seen a lone female call, with no one to call to. Though I’m sure it’s happened many times. I wonder what’s her reasoning for calling? Looking for a mate? Anyway, I’m amazed that she’s done so well on her own. Hopefully she’ll continue to succeed.


Looking for mate yes.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mapokser - 04-09-2023

@KNPLimper Yeah it's said they came from the Ximhungwe/Castleton pride.

You can read the MM reports on the Rollercoasters here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lions-of-sabi-sands?page=28

They mention many interactions with the Charleston pride, I'll repost some here so anyone interested doesn't need to read the entire countless reports to find their specific interactions:

March 2002:

"Whilst on the eastern bank of the Sand River it is not known whether they actually met up with the Charleston Pride, but the latter did not seem particularly concerned about their presence. And they simply had to have known about it; the four male lions were certainly very evident, splitting into two pairs and roaming all over, following buffalo and hunting regularly. The fact that the Charleston Pride did not flee the area when these four male arrived may be an indication that they are indeed familiar with them, this from their early days as pride members."

This was despite the Charleston pride being at the control of the Ridge Rocks Males.

July 2002:

"So far, in addition to the central-south and west of Mala Mala, they seem to go all the way south, into areas patrolled by the Charleston Pride. But these forays do not seem to threaten the Charleston Pride and when seen this way during July, it was probably mostly for hunting purposes. Some evidence suggests that these males are in fact brothers, half brothers and even a cousin of the Charleston Pride lionesses and so, being familiar with them perhaps puts them at ease."

February 2003:

"Evidence suggests that the Rollercoaster Males are brothers of the three younger Charleston Pride lionesses and previous wanderings of these male lions in territory covered by the Charleston Pride did not excite the females, so perhaps they will not threaten the Charleston Pride. But the Ridge Rocks Males may feel threatened and respond."

May 2003:

"A short while after this initial appearance in the area by the Charleston Pride and Ridge Rocks Males, the Charleston Pride lionesses and one of the Ridge Rocks Males killed a giraffe and spent a few days eating it.  When the Rollercoaster Males appeared, the carcass of the giraffe was almost completely finished and the Ridge Rocks Male had gone, perhaps having detected the Rollercoaster Males arrival well in advance and, realising that he was alone and on the fringes of his turf, decided to flee.  Interestingly, the Charleston Pride lionesses seemed in no hurry to leave, but then it has often been thought that they are sisters to the Rollercoaster Males and have little fear of them."

February 2004:

"Although all Rollercoaster Males were accounted for this month, there were no sightings of all three together.  Things appear to be going well for this trio which controls the southwestern parts of the reserve.  The only time when any of them were seen with the Selati Pride, the family of lions under their control in this area, was towards the end of the report-period when two of them were found feasting off a zebra carcass with some of the lionesses.  Whilst these lions were feeding, they were approached by one of the Charleston Pride lionesses, but she was chased off by the Selati Pride.  Some evidence suggests that the Rollercoaster Males are the Charleston Pride lioness' brothers."

With all these instances and interactions I think it's pretty safe to say the Rollercoaster males were definitely, 100%, the brothers of the Charleston females. Nothing else explains all these weird peaceful interactions when they were supposed to be enemies. No lionesses in their right state of mind will calmly stay in a kill after her dominant males ran due to the presence of rival males, or even worse, try to join a rival male and his pride in their kill.

Same for the RCs, as dominant territorial males they had no reasons to interact with their neighbouring Charleston pride without chasing, threatening or trying to take over them. Only explanation is the one offered by MalaMala, they must have been siblings and therefore didn't see each other as enemies.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mwk85 - 04-09-2023

Southern Pride lioness, her two daughters, and 2/2 Gijima males following behind them.


*This image is copyright of its original author


RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - afortich - 04-10-2023

Nice summary of events!






RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 04-12-2023

1/2 BDYMS found mating w one Nkuhuma lioness.    I believe it’s Chela.  




RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 04-12-2023

(04-12-2023, 05:16 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: 1/2 BDYMS found mating w one Nkuhuma lioness.    I believe it’s Chela.  



I guess we can expect that this is just the start?  Refresh me... She would have been a Mohawk right?  I think Mohawk is going to settle into Babysitter role for a while.