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+--- Thread: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity (/topic-zoos-circuses-safaris-a-gallery-of-captivity)
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - peter - 07-20-2017
(07-19-2017, 10:20 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: East african lions. Father, mother, son
BTW I talked with the owner of this private zoo (20+ years of experience with around 50 lions and 20 tigers). He is huge lion lover and he dislikes tigers (he is going to cancel his amur tiger program...he is also going to keep his white tigers beacuse they are attractive and he needs visitors). He says that according to his opinion (captive) amur tigers are the biggest, while bengal and south african lions are about the same size (he was in India and especially in Africa many times). I asked him who would win in a fight and he said, that majority of people in the know prefer one one them but according to him it depends strictly on the individual. His felids are in good condition and have long life (one lion was 24 yo when he died) and this zoo is extremely successfull in breeding. Its beacuse quiet environment (felids have a lot of privacy) and proper food (usually veal). In many zoos felids have inapropriate diet (chicken, rabbits...) and therefore have tendencies to obesity.
Same answer as Tony Hughes on encounters between captive lions and tigers; there's no such thing as species-related ability in a fight. It depends on the individual.
As to his remark on size.
We have to remember that there is a pronounced difference between captive and wild tigers. Captive Amur tigers often are larger and bigger than their wild relatives. In Indian tigers, it's the other way round. Captive lions often are a bit bigger than their wild relatives.
The only regions where wild adult males average 200 kg. (442 pounds) and over are India and Nepal (tigers). Southern and southwestern Africa could be second (lions), but Amur tigers are quite close.
In tigers, exceptional individuals are only seen in India and Nepal. Exceptional males lions, on the other hand, have been seen in most regions. WaveRiders measured a skull of a 600-pound wild lion shot in Kenya.
Did he tell you why he dislikes tigers?
Nice pictures, as always.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 05:00 AM)peter Wrote:(07-19-2017, 10:20 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: East african lions. Father, mother, son
BTW I talked with the owner of this private zoo (20+ years of experience with around 50 lions and 20 tigers). He is huge lion lover and he dislikes tigers (he is going to cancel his amur tiger program...he is also going to keep his white tigers beacuse they are attractive and he needs visitors). He says that according to his opinion (captive) amur tigers are the biggest, while bengal and south african lions are about the same size (he was in India and especially in Africa many times). I asked him who would win in a fight and he said, that majority of people in the know prefer one one them but according to him it depends strictly on the individual. His felids are in good condition and have long life (one lion was 24 yo when he died) and this zoo is extremely successfull in breeding. Its beacuse quiet environment (felids have a lot of privacy) and proper food (usually veal). In many zoos felids have inapropriate diet (chicken, rabbits...) and therefore have tendencies to obesity.
Same answer as Tony Hughes on encounters between captive lions and tigers; there's no such thing as species-related ability in a fight. It depends on the individual.
As to his remark on size.
We have to remember that there is a pronounced difference between captive and wild tigers. Captive Amur tigers often are larger and bigger than their wild relatives. In Indian tigers, it's the other way round. Captive lions often are a bit bigger than their wild relatives.
The only regions where wild adult males average 200 kg. (442 pounds) and over are India and Nepal (tigers). Southern and southwestern Africa could be second (lions), but Amur tigers are quite close.
In tigers, exceptional individuals are only seen in India and Nepal. Exceptional males lions, on the other hand, have been seen in most regions. WaveRiders measured a skull of a 600-pound wild lion shot in Kenya.
Did he tell you why he dislikes tigers?
Nice pictures, as always.
Thank You Peter,
he said that "tiger is a villain" According to him tigers are intelligent but in a "bad" way - they are sly. And agressive. BTW one of his tigers - 6yo 270+ kg (estimated) amur killed a man in one public zoo...(he somehow managed to open his enclosure and killed his breeder). When we talked about tigers I told him how one tiger killed a lion in a circus: group of tigers and lions - some females, 1 male tiger, 1 male lion. The felids had to go from one enclosure to another via some narrow corridor. First the male lion, then lionesses, the tigresses and male tiger last. One day the tiger waited till the lion entered the corridor, then he overtook the lionesses, pressed himself beside the lion and immediately killed him. Then he walked away as if nothing happened. The breeder told me that this is exactly the tigers style... on the other hand the chief big cat breeder from zoo Prague said that he likes tigers most, because they are the strongest personalities....so this is probably a matter of opinion/personal preferencies...
BTW when I told him that 270 kg means very huge tiger he replied that its indeed a lot...but nothing extraordinary because "some amurs are real giants". We talk about that white tiger who was weighted 250 kg at the age of 3 and he said he estimated him to be 200 kg (before the weighing) and that according to him bengals are usually around 200 kg...and that kruger lions are simillar (he is not like us - we are able to spend years arguing whether average weight of bengal tigers is 208 kg or 215 kg...or whether average weight of kuger lions is 189 kg or 193 kg).
He also said that his white tigers (male and female) had east african neighbors and that the tigers were very self confident because they had substantial weight advantage (especially the male). But he purchased huge white krugers in their prime and placed them instead of those east africans. The ego of immature tigers (they were around 3 that time, now they are 4,5) went down...for about 1 month they were just lying down and quietly observing the lions, they were really nervous. Finally they somehow managed to build a balanced relationship with the lions.
Tigress (sorry for idiotic photo).
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
amur male 300 kg (estimated, obese)
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
subadult kruger
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
same kruger
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
amur male 220 kg weighted, 4-5 yo
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
barbary...
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
same amur as above
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
same kruger as above
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Betty - 07-20-2017
(07-19-2017, 10:20 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: East african lions. Father, mother, son
BTW I talked with the owner of this private zoo (20+ years of experience with around 50 lions and 20 tigers). He is huge lion lover and he dislikes tigers (he is going to cancel his amur tiger program...he is also going to keep his white tigers beacuse they are attractive and he needs visitors). He says that according to his opinion (captive) amur tigers are the biggest, while bengal and south african lions are about the same size (he was in India and especially in Africa many times). I asked him who would win in a fight and he said, that majority of people in the know prefer one one them but according to him it depends strictly on the individual. His felids are in good condition and have long life (one lion was 24 yo when he died) and this zoo is extremely successfull in breeding. Its beacuse quiet environment (felids have a lot of privacy) and proper food (usually veal). In many zoos felids have inapropriate diet (chicken, rabbits...) and therefore have tendencies to obesity.
Stunning Photos！ Which zoo are these big cats come from?
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 03:55 PM)Betty Wrote:(07-19-2017, 10:20 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: East african lions. Father, mother, son
BTW I talked with the owner of this private zoo (20+ years of experience with around 50 lions and 20 tigers). He is huge lion lover and he dislikes tigers (he is going to cancel his amur tiger program...he is also going to keep his white tigers beacuse they are attractive and he needs visitors). He says that according to his opinion (captive) amur tigers are the biggest, while bengal and south african lions are about the same size (he was in India and especially in Africa many times). I asked him who would win in a fight and he said, that majority of people in the know prefer one one them but according to him it depends strictly on the individual. His felids are in good condition and have long life (one lion was 24 yo when he died) and this zoo is extremely successfull in breeding. Its beacuse quiet environment (felids have a lot of privacy) and proper food (usually veal). In many zoos felids have inapropriate diet (chicken, rabbits...) and therefore have tendencies to obesity.
Stunning Photos！ Which zoo are these big cats come from?
I sent you the answer into your post. The zoo is private, I have good relations with the owner and Im afraid that he could be abused by some immature psychopatic trolls. Other photos are from ZOO Tabor, ZOO Plzen and ZOO Hodonin (all from Czech Republic).
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Apollo - 07-20-2017
@Amnon242
Where are these private breeding centers and zoos getting there Bengals from.
India is not giving any bengals to any private centers.
Im not sure whether studbook bengals on species protection programs are being shared with private breeding centers.
Is there is any proper genetic study on these centers for the purity of these tigers.
Ive seen people saying smaller tigers to be bengals eventhough its amurs, mixed breeds, indochinese etc.
In the old days the tigers taken from sunderbans region and the indochinese tigers were labelled Bengals.
Im pretty sure they are not purebred bengals.
Wild Bengal male weights were been underestimated.
As per modern scientific data. Wild subadult bengal males are reaching 225 kgs generally let alone adult males.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Rishi - 07-20-2017
@Apollo Here is the studbook.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Apollo - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 08:21 PM)Rishi Wrote: @Apollo Here is the studbook.
I do have the list already.
Thanks anyways.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 07-21-2017
(07-20-2017, 07:19 PM)Apollo Wrote: @Amnon242White tigers are bengals and they are quite common....
Where are these private breeding centers and zoos getting there Bengals from.
India is not giving any bengals to any private centers.
Im not sure whether studbook bengals on species protection programs are being shared with private breeding centers.
Is there is any proper genetic study on these centers for the purity of these tigers.
Ive seen people saying smaller tigers to be bengals eventhough its amurs, mixed breeds, indochinese etc.
In the old days the tigers taken from sunderbans region and the indochinese tigers were labelled Bengals.
Im pretty sure they are not purebred bengals.
Wild Bengal male weights were been underestimated.
As per modern scientific data. Wild subadult bengal males are reaching 225 kgs generally let alone adult males.
And I think his opinion could be also based on the fact, that bengal tigers (wild) really are around 200 kg...ok, perhaps 210 kg or so...we did not discuss this problem that much...