+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Othawa Pride (/topic-othawa-pride)
RE: Othawa Pride - NLAL11 - 05-21-2024
(05-21-2024, 05:16 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: More good sightings. Dad and his buddy are back in the area. I am not sure if that is good news or bad news. Would we be unhappy with NK mating with them? Are the PCM's coming back?
Mating with them would be better than trying to killing them. But I don't see it working out. Skorro Jr would then probably want to mate with them as well, which the girls wouldn't be happy with, which would either cause a rift in the coalition, or the girls would just reject both of them. Which could also lead to trouble. Remember that Nkuhuma most likely killed the old Othawa lionesses with Nhenha.
To be honest I really hope these guys leave again, they're going to do nothing but damage to the lion population in the area. Can't believe I'm saying this but the PC males need to come in and stamp their authority.
RE: Othawa Pride - Cath2020 - 05-21-2024
Well, to be honest, those lionesses are most likely the daughters of his previous coalition partners, so would be actually limited inbreeding.... They look nothing like him, the darker one looking so much like Scar Tumbela when he was 2-3 years old. The lighter lioness resembles Blondie Tumbela much more than Skorro Jr. in my opinion.
That being said, I still don't think it's a good idea for them to return to the West as it's already taken and I don't see where they'd fit in?? Strange that they can't seem to stay away.
RE: Othawa Pride - Ttimemarti - 05-21-2024
So skorro jr wasn’t the first one mating with the othawa females?
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-21-2024
It's a mystery how NK/Tumbela would react to the Othawas. They are not in heat yet so chances are NK will be hostile.
Will it be enough hostility for him to put the effort to kill them? Hopefully not, but if this happens, I hope their father will defend them again, but it is much trickier this time since now he is officially friends with NK.
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-21-2024
@Ttimemarti he was the only fully healthy brother, he was by the far the strongest and would dominate the mating.
But it's impossible to tell who fathered who. The male cub looked a lot like current Tumbela, as for these 2 remaining subs idk, the bigger one resembles the DK Majingilane sometimes for me, but with a lighter fur, the other one I think resembles their mother but maybe current Tumbela as well.
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-21-2024
(05-21-2024, 10:16 PM)Mapokser Wrote: It's a mystery how NK/Tumbela would react to the Othawas. They are not in heat yet so chances are NK will be hostile.
Will it be enough hostility for him to put the effort to kill them? Hopefully not, but if this happens, I hope their father will defend them again, but it is much trickier this time since now he is officially friends with NK.
NYM took part in wiping out the Othawas to begin with, so I believe a everything is going to stem from if Skorro Jr is the more dominant one of the two (in their previous interactions this was the case), and if he is, how is he going to react to those girls with NYM around. If he is more docile towards them, as he has been to date, he may be able to keep NYM from harming them. Either way, any interaction between the four is going to be an extremely stressful one, for sure, for those girls, and all of us who are so hopeful for their futures.
RE: Othawa Pride - Ttimemarti - 05-21-2024
(05-21-2024, 10:24 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Ttimemarti he was the only fully healthy brother, he was by the far the strongest and would dominate the mating.Do you have photos of juniors mom and sassy and the smaller othawa female I’m not 100% convinced who her mother is recently I thought it was sassy but her head shape resembles the older othawa female not sassy but we can’t go off looks
But it's impossible to tell who fathered who. The male cub looked a lot like current Tumbela, as for these 2 remaining subs idk, the bigger one resembles the DK Majingilane sometimes for me, but with a lighter fur, the other one I think resembles their mother but maybe current Tumbela as well.
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-21-2024
I know in the very beginning, the first instances of matting between the Tumbelas and Othawas, it was Scar who was doing the mating. When he began to get sick, Skorro Jr took over those duties, he and the pride became rather hostile towards Scar, even the sub adults. I don't recall, right off, of any instances of Limper having mated with them (not saying it didn't happen, I just don't recall it having happened), though he may well have bred with the Ximungwe, as he was with her and her cub an awful lot, to the point that some believed he might be venturing out on his own for the way that he, too, was being treated by his brother.
RE: Othawa Pride - Cath2020 - 05-23-2024
(05-21-2024, 09:34 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So skorro jr wasn’t the first one mating with the othawa females?
No, he wasn't. In fact, he was not the dominant one until the 2 others became weaker....and he grew into himself, becoming bolder and more assertive. I'm not saying he wouldn't have become more assertive if the other 2 had not declined....but it seemed to almost coincide. I saw more footage of Blondie Tumbela mating with Sassy than Skorro Jr....but they probably both mated with her. Scar, however, was definitely the dominant one, mating the most in the very beginning. Remember, Sassy went into heat WAY early after the soft takeover happened....so this was before the current Tumbela went into full dominance....hence his brothers mated much more in the beginning. He didn't seem nearly as interested in mating as the other 2 for a few months, at least, so maybe he was just a late bloomer. In fact, it was mostly his 2 partners I saw mating with big Aunty Othawa and Sassy, whereas I saw more footage of him mating with the other Aunty....and she went into heat much later than Sassy, so makes sense if Skorro Jr was the sire to most, if not all, of the younger 3 cubs.....
RE: Othawa Pride - Cath2020 - 05-23-2024
It's interesting how some lionesses will quickly go into heat after a takeover, while others will bide their time until the males 'prove' their worth to lead the pride. Sometimes it can actually backfire if lionesses succumb too early, trusting the takeover males....because these males might not think the cubs are theirs if the females conceive right away, especially if it's in a VERY competitive area. The Western Sector wasn't that competitive at the time though, the Othawa Pride led by an aging Hairy Belly, so the incoming males didn't have any reason to be concerned about paternity of their cubs. Sassy trusted them right away, even before her current subs were two years of age, so they had to go nomadic somewhat early..... This might have been to the detriment of her sons, though.....so, we'll never know 100%. Since we have yet to see even one picture or video of the 3 Othawa Males that went nomadic after the Tumbelas came, I'd say it's as much a possibility that they didn't make it as otherwise.
RE: Othawa Pride - Ttimemarti - 05-23-2024
So the older two females joined the males first but sassy gave birth first so where the older two othawa females (one can’t have cubs) was she fake mating I forget what they call it but was she protecting the cubs from the males or was she actually mating?
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-23-2024
(05-23-2024, 02:54 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: It's interesting how some lionesses will quickly go into heat after a takeover, while others will bide their time until the males 'prove' their worth to lead the pride. Sometimes it can actually backfire if lionesses succumb too early, trusting the takeover males....because these males might not think the cubs are theirs if the females conceive right away, especially if it's in a VERY competitive area. The Western Sector wasn't that competitive at the time though, the Othawa Pride led by an aging Hairy Belly, so the incoming males didn't have any reason to be concerned about paternity of their cubs. Sassy trusted them right away, even before her current subs were two years of age, so they had to go nomadic somewhat early..... This might have been to the detriment of her sons, though.....so, we'll never know 100%. Since we have yet to see even one picture or video of the 3 Othawa Males that went nomadic after the Tumbelas came, I'd say it's as much a possibility that they didn't make it as otherwise.
If I recall correctly, the youngest of the three males, disappeared before they ever went into Kruger. Then when the other two males, along with Gingerella went into Kruger, only she returned, and we never saw or heard from the other two males, including Junior, again.
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-23-2024
(05-23-2024, 03:54 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So the older two females joined the males first but sassy gave birth first so where the older two othawa females (one can’t have cubs) was she fake mating I forget what they call it but was she protecting the cubs from the males or was she actually mating?
False estrus, I believe it is called. She may have gone into false estrus, or she may have simply not conceived, stressful times for the pride in that moment, not to mention she was an aging lioness.
RE: Othawa Pride - Cath2020 - 05-23-2024
(05-23-2024, 03:58 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-23-2024, 02:54 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: It's interesting how some lionesses will quickly go into heat after a takeover, while others will bide their time until the males 'prove' their worth to lead the pride. Sometimes it can actually backfire if lionesses succumb too early, trusting the takeover males....because these males might not think the cubs are theirs if the females conceive right away, especially if it's in a VERY competitive area. The Western Sector wasn't that competitive at the time though, the Othawa Pride led by an aging Hairy Belly, so the incoming males didn't have any reason to be concerned about paternity of their cubs. Sassy trusted them right away, even before her current subs were two years of age, so they had to go nomadic somewhat early..... This might have been to the detriment of her sons, though.....so, we'll never know 100%. Since we have yet to see even one picture or video of the 3 Othawa Males that went nomadic after the Tumbelas came, I'd say it's as much a possibility that they didn't make it as otherwise.
If I recall correctly, the youngest of the three males, disappeared before they ever went into Kruger. Then when the other two males, along with Gingerella went into Kruger, only she returned, and we never saw or heard from the other two males, including Junior, again.
I think one of Sassy's sons returned with his sister...if I recall. I'm sure of it. At first, I was thinking that he just got separated from his partners somehow....but what if they were attacked, and he and his sister were the only survivors? Either that, or they got suddenly scattered and the sister and one brother ran away together, while the other 2 were scattered in another direction and maybe found each other too deep into Kruger for us to ever see them again, or they never found each other.....
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-23-2024
(05-23-2024, 04:49 AM)Cath2020 Wrote:(05-23-2024, 03:58 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-23-2024, 02:54 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: It's interesting how some lionesses will quickly go into heat after a takeover, while others will bide their time until the males 'prove' their worth to lead the pride. Sometimes it can actually backfire if lionesses succumb too early, trusting the takeover males....because these males might not think the cubs are theirs if the females conceive right away, especially if it's in a VERY competitive area. The Western Sector wasn't that competitive at the time though, the Othawa Pride led by an aging Hairy Belly, so the incoming males didn't have any reason to be concerned about paternity of their cubs. Sassy trusted them right away, even before her current subs were two years of age, so they had to go nomadic somewhat early..... This might have been to the detriment of her sons, though.....so, we'll never know 100%. Since we have yet to see even one picture or video of the 3 Othawa Males that went nomadic after the Tumbelas came, I'd say it's as much a possibility that they didn't make it as otherwise.
If I recall correctly, the youngest of the three males, disappeared before they ever went into Kruger. Then when the other two males, along with Gingerella went into Kruger, only she returned, and we never saw or heard from the other two males, including Junior, again.
I think one of Sassy's sons returned with his sister...if I recall. I'm sure of it. At first, I was thinking that he just got separated from his partners somehow....but what if they were attacked, and he and his sister were the only survivors? Either that, or they got suddenly scattered and the sister and one brother ran away together, while the other 2 were scattered in another direction and maybe found each other too deep into Kruger for us to ever see them again, or they never found each other.....
Yes, now that you mention it, I do believe you are correct. He disappeared after he and Gingerella returned, so he did go into Kruger with them, but I do recall he was the youngest of them.