WildFact
Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Lions of Sabi Sands (/topic-lions-of-sabi-sands)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 03:47 AM)Tonpa Wrote: Hopefully we'll get more info tomorrow but yeah I'm assuming it was one of the sub-adults. I wonder if these two also killed ximungwe sub

These 2 where not in contact with Ximhungwes (for what we know) so i doubt that.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - 1999gc8 - 10-22-2021

I wonder if it was the PC males that attacked Auntie Othawa as well? She did receive quite a beating at the time. Also it's quite a shock when you hear about lions fighting in Sabi Sands and results in death. You rarely hear anything like that happening besides the Othawa male which was also a shock to everyone.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-22-2021

I dont think the two were in western sector when those two were attacked.

Ultimately, this is the real face of male lions. Not the noble kings that people make them out to be, but ruthless abusive men whose job is to keep out other ruthless abusive men.
I think we have been lulled in a false sense of peace as things were calm for a while. But now we are getting more coalitions again. We probably can expect more deaths in the upcomming years.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Thierry - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 09:45 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I dont think the two were in western sector when those two were attacked.

Ultimately, this is the real face of male lions. Not the noble kings that people make them out to be, but ruthless abusive men whose job is to keep out other ruthless abusive men.
I think we have been lulled in a false sense of peace as things were calm for a while. But now we are getting more coalitions again. We probably can expect more deaths in the upcomming years.
There are no ruthless abusive men here. There is no nobility either. There are animals, which act according to criteria which are specific to them, in a circumstantial or perhaps strategic way.
We just aren't always able to know or understand all of the interactions between lions, or how certain circumstances make them act one way over another.
Let us beware of any anthropomorphism.
Logical or not to us, killing a lioness or a subadult may make sense to them.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-22-2021

Pretty much. For them its how society works and its perfectly normal during a pride takeover attempt. 

I was more making a character description.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tonpa - 10-22-2021

Othawa ladies & Croc interaction



RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 10-22-2021

Lets wait and see under which circumstances that lioness got killed, lion never kill other lion without reason, but sometimes we cant comprehend that reason.

Calling them "abusive men" is wrong, thats judging from perspective of our (human) society, which is completely different, lions have their own society, which works all on strenght and dominance, and who has that (male lions), is the boss in the neigbourhood. 

Also, humans (far more intelligent "animals" then lions) are doing the same thing for thousand of years, we kill each others for similar things. Sometimes for no reason at all, so we are worst then lions in that regard.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 10-22-2021

Most likely the lioness refused to share a meal or have sex or something. Or they are planning to take over.

Its odd that we call them kings and queens etc without issue. But pointing out that a abusive husband is a far better comparison if one insists on anthropormising is suddenly going to far.

I think deep down the reasons humans kill are roughly the same. Ultimately we are just a bunch of shaved primates afteral.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 09:45 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think we have been lulled in a false sense of peace as things were calm for a while.
That is natural turn of events. The peaceful times with little takeovers around creates boom in lion population. The higher population leads to competition. Competition reasults in death to some and force others to abandon arena. That leads to lower population, little takeovers as there are enough prides, territorys and prey for everyone which creates boom in the population and the cycle starts again so that we had quite peacefull last 4 years or so it doesn't mean such will least forever, but rather opposite - that thinks are about to change.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mangw - 10-22-2021

When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T I N O - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 06:52 PM)Mangw Wrote: When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

Exactly, they've killed one of the Nkuhumas females on August 05/06 in 2015, they also killed one of the Styx females on 30 August 2015, One of the Tsalala sub-adults in December 07 2017 and counting some others. These are just a few things of what the Birmingham males did in their long reign. Without a doubt. A very succesfully and neat coalition of lions. They reminds me a lot to the Majingilane males...

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Gijima - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 07:25 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:52 PM)Mangw Wrote: When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

Exactly, they've killed one of the Nkuhumas females on August 05/06 in 2015, they also killed one of the Styx females on 30 August 2015, One of the Tsalala sub-adults in December 07 2017 and counting some others. These are just a few things of what the Birmingham males did in their long reign. Without a doubt. A very succesfully and neat coalition of lions. They reminds me a lot to the Majingilane males...

I won't put the kills of females and subadults on the list of "accomplishments" for any coalition--- in fact it's actually counter productive to kill females. 

And not the start a debate but there is NO comparison to the Majingilanes who went toe-to-toe with some of the best coalitions of their day--- often equal in size and number-- and won. They were fighting even after they were "old lions" not giving up an inch of territory. They are in the league of their own.

Thank you for someone who mentioned this is just nature and a natural part of lion dynamics.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T I N O - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 07:50 PM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:25 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:52 PM)Mangw Wrote: When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

Exactly, they've killed one of the Nkuhumas females on August 05/06 in 2015, they also killed one of the Styx females on 30 August 2015, One of the Tsalala sub-adults in December 07 2017 and counting some others. These are just a few things of what the Birmingham males did in their long reign. Without a doubt. A very succesfully and neat coalition of lions. They reminds me a lot to the Majingilane males...

I won't put the kills of females and subadults on the list of "accomplishments" for any coalition--- in fact it's actually counter productive to kill females. 

And not the start a debate but there is NO comparison to the Majingilanes who went toe-to-toe with some of the best coalitions of their day--- often equal in size and number-- and won. They were fighting even after they were "old lions" not giving up an inch of territory. They are in the league of their own.

Thank you for someone who mentioned this is just nature and a natural part of lion dynamics.
Of course not my friend, I'm not counting the kills of the lionesses as accomplishments of the Birmingham males. If not, telling how aggressive and tough they were with the takeovers in their younger. I don't have any doubt that their accomplishments were their offspring and territory conquered, The Birmingham offspring is pretty alive in Sabi Sands, like the Nkuhuma, Torchwood, the deseased Styx male, the Nkuhumas females, Mangheni lioness, Kambula sub-adults members. They're in their sixth year as dominant males in Sabi Sands and I hope there are more ahead. They have fathered plenty of cubs, For which I'll dare to say, they're one of the most succesfully coalition of lions in recent times. The Avoca coalition are in the same way with the Nkuhuma, Talamati and perhaps with the Kambulas in a future.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Gijima - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 09:24 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:50 PM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:25 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:52 PM)Mangw Wrote: When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

Exactly, they've killed one of the Nkuhumas females on August 05/06 in 2015, they also killed one of the Styx females on 30 August 2015, One of the Tsalala sub-adults in December 07 2017 and counting some others. These are just a few things of what the Birmingham males did in their long reign. Without a doubt. A very succesfully and neat coalition of lions. They reminds me a lot to the Majingilane males...

I won't put the kills of females and subadults on the list of "accomplishments" for any coalition--- in fact it's actually counter productive to kill females. 

And not the start a debate but there is NO comparison to the Majingilanes who went toe-to-toe with some of the best coalitions of their day--- often equal in size and number-- and won. They were fighting even after they were "old lions" not giving up an inch of territory. They are in the league of their own.

Thank you for someone who mentioned this is just nature and a natural part of lion dynamics.
Of course not my friend, I'm not counting the kills of the lionesses as accomplishments of the Birmingham males. If not, telling how aggressive and tough they were with the takeovers in their younger. I don't have any doubt that their accomplishments were their offspring and territory conquered, The Birmingham offspring is pretty alive in Sabi Sands, like the Nkuhuma, Torchwood, the deseased Styx male, the Nkuhumas females, Mangheni lioness, Kambula sub-adults members. They're in their sixth year as dominant males in Sabi Sands and I hope there are more ahead. They have fathered plenty of cubs, For which I'll dare to say, they're one of the most succesfully coalition of lions in recent times. The Avoca coalition are in the same way with the Nkuhuma, Talamati and perhaps with the Kambulas in a future.

I hope the Birmingham legacy lives on for generations, and with the strong Kambula coalition I think it will. 

My point about the Majingilanes, who I actually never really liked back in the day, is more about their dominance over other male lions and willingness to fight for their territory. Like the way they marched back to Londolozi to chase away Matimbas or their take-over of the west. They really remind me more of the Mjejanes. Not that that makes them better or worse.. just an observation.

But agree with all your points above. I think we are privileged to see many successful coalitions, each with their own unique style.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T I N O - 10-22-2021

(10-22-2021, 10:18 PM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 09:24 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:50 PM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:25 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:52 PM)Mangw Wrote: When the BBoys were taking over prides they also killed a few lionesses if i remember correctly

Exactly, they've killed one of the Nkuhumas females on August 05/06 in 2015, they also killed one of the Styx females on 30 August 2015, One of the Tsalala sub-adults in December 07 2017 and counting some others. These are just a few things of what the Birmingham males did in their long reign. Without a doubt. A very succesfully and neat coalition of lions. They reminds me a lot to the Majingilane males...

I won't put the kills of females and subadults on the list of "accomplishments" for any coalition--- in fact it's actually counter productive to kill females. 

And not the start a debate but there is NO comparison to the Majingilanes who went toe-to-toe with some of the best coalitions of their day--- often equal in size and number-- and won. They were fighting even after they were "old lions" not giving up an inch of territory. They are in the league of their own.

Thank you for someone who mentioned this is just nature and a natural part of lion dynamics.
Of course not my friend, I'm not counting the kills of the lionesses as accomplishments of the Birmingham males. If not, telling how aggressive and tough they were with the takeovers in their younger. I don't have any doubt that their accomplishments were their offspring and territory conquered, The Birmingham offspring is pretty alive in Sabi Sands, like the Nkuhuma, Torchwood, the deseased Styx male, the Nkuhumas females, Mangheni lioness, Kambula sub-adults members. They're in their sixth year as dominant males in Sabi Sands and I hope there are more ahead. They have fathered plenty of cubs, For which I'll dare to say, they're one of the most succesfully coalition of lions in recent times. The Avoca coalition are in the same way with the Nkuhuma, Talamati and perhaps with the Kambulas in a future.

I hope the Birmingham legacy lives on for generations, and with the strong Kambula coalition I think it will. 

My point about the Majingilanes, who I actually never really liked back in the day, is more about their dominance over other male lions and willingness to fight for their territory. Like the way they marched back to Londolozi to chase away Matimbas or their take-over of the west. They really remind me more of the Mjejanes. Not that that makes them better or worse.. just an observation.

But agree with all your points above. I think we are privileged to see many successful coalitions, each with their own unique style.

Well said my friend, We're privileged to follow these lions on a daily basis via updates of rangers. It's absolutely incredible follow the journey of the lions. Since cubs to the adulthood.