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+----- Thread: Lions of Timbavati (/topic-lions-of-timbavati)
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RE: Lions of Timbavati - adamstocks16 - 11-23-2024
Mbiri Males both have the ‘dormant’ version of TB at the moment I think. @Tr1x24 has spoken on this quite regularly about the topic of the ‘black spot’ on hips which I also believe may be linked to TB which has been present on both Scar and Shaka for many years. Perhaps they just have greater tolerance or stronger immune system than other lions as although we’ve seen their condition fluctuate at times over the last couple of years recently they have both been looking great especially for their advanced age.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 07:00 PM)adamstocks16 Wrote: Mbiri Males both have the ‘dormant’ version of TB at the moment I think. @Tr1x24 has spoken on this quite regularly about the topic of the ‘black spot’ on hips which I also believe may be linked to TB which has been present on both Scar and Shaka for many years. Perhaps they just have greater tolerance or stronger immune system than other lions as although we’ve seen their condition fluctuate at times over the last couple of years recently they have both been looking great especially for their advanced age.
One thing we do know is that bovine TB causes sharp jagged growths on the bones of these animals, that are very painful. I believe, but have no confirmation or evidence of this, that these sharp edges rub the skin from the inside resulting in the black marks we often see happening in the hips and shoulders. We have seen some lions, where the bones actually rub to the point of breaking the skin, leaving bone exposed to the outside world. It is a horrific disease.
As is peritonitis, which I have seen kill people, and it is also a horrible, painful death. TB in humans causes the inability to breathe, which it does not seem to do to these animals, regardless, any animal that dies from TB, and/or peritonitis, suffered unimaginably. S8's death was actually a blessing, simultaneously suffering from both afflictions, as his final few days were horrible for him. Only cat that I believe may have suffered more was Dark Mane, whose suffering may have been the worst of all.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - adamstocks16 - 11-24-2024
@BA0701 Yeah watching Imbali Male and Dark Mane go out the way they did was tough to take, ultimately it was a combination of diseases and buffalo which did it for both of them.
Also agree with your assessment of the black spot potentially being the result of or at least linked to the protruding growths we also see on many of the affected lions around their hip area. The two that spring to mind to me in that regard are Nsuku and Sizanani, who essentially wasted away due to whatever affliction this is.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-24-2024
(11-24-2024, 12:48 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: @BA0701 Yeah watching Imbali Male and Dark Mane go out the way they did was tough to take, ultimately it was a combination of diseases and buffalo which did it for both of them.
Also agree with your assessment of the black spot potentially being the result of or at least linked to the protruding growths we also see on many of the affected lions around their hip area. The two that spring to mind to me in that regard are Nsuku and Sizanani, who essentially wasted away due to whatever affliction this is.
An example of these sharp lesions that TB causes on the bones. There was another video that also showed these lesions even better, on the hip bones of a lion, but I do not seem able to find that video now. I know I shared it here a few years ago, but using any search engine or website search function, to search for TB doesn't work, not enough letters. The bones in this image, as with any bones, generally, should be nice and smooth.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is the video that I captured this image from:
Interestingly enough, this video states that the large lumps we often see on lions elbows is also caused by being infected with TB. While looking for the original video, I came across this one, and this is the first time I have heard those elbow lumps, called hygroma, being associated with TB. Mohawk is the first lion that came to mind, when I think of these elbow lumps, as he has some rather large ones.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - adamstocks16 - 11-24-2024
Yeah I actually do think those lumps are in some way related but perhaps another more ‘dormant’ version of the disease unlike the other one which causes severe deterioration and muscle wastage. Mohawk has had those enlarged lumps on his elbow joints for quite some time, another good example of this is the late Mapoza who also had these hygromas but they didn’t seem to affect him at all. It’s an interesting subject which will continue to be discussed as nobody has actually clarified exactly what is going on and why so many lions are being affected by these things.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-24-2024
(11-24-2024, 03:42 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: Yeah I actually do think those lumps are in some way related but perhaps another more ‘dormant’ version of the disease unlike the other one which causes severe deterioration and muscle wastage. Mohawk has had those enlarged lumps on his elbow joints for quite some time, another good example of this is the late Mapoza who also had these hygromas but they didn’t seem to affect him at all. It’s an interesting subject which will continue to be discussed as nobody has actually clarified exactly what is going on and why so many lions are being affected by these things.
Agreed, entirely, my friend! I do wish we were privy to most of the interworkings on this research, as it has had such a massive impact on our beloved cats.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Mapokser - 11-24-2024
@BigLion39 Most Kruger lions probably have TB, even if in a "dormant" state. Dunno if Mbiris have it or not, I'd imagine that either their immune system is very strong, not allowing the disease to get active or they don't have it since they have survived so many horrible injuries and beatings, making full recoveries.
Recently Shishangaan males were tested and Casper + one brother were clean, while other 2 tested positive.
Shaka was darted and marked/branded, but I've no idea what his branding means, it's not the same as that on the Birmingham female or the ones from the Mayambulas.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Ttimemarti - 11-24-2024
I think the branding means they’ve been tested for TB I believe
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-24-2024
(11-24-2024, 07:09 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I think the branding means they’ve been tested for TB I believe
I believe there may be different brands, to signify different things, such as a positive or negative test result.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - criollo2mil - 11-24-2024
Torchwood Mongawane w one of their offspring and a Lioness
Sorry. CORRECTION. this is the correct photo
Torchwood w. Female
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 11-24-2024
(11-24-2024, 11:33 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Torchwood Mongawane w one of their offspring and a Lioness
Thats Mandevu i think.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - criollo2mil - 11-24-2024
(11-24-2024, 11:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-24-2024, 11:33 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Torchwood Mongawane w one of their offspring and a Lioness
Thats Mandevu i think.
Yes it is….I got my videos mixed up SMH
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-25-2024
(11-24-2024, 11:48 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:(11-24-2024, 11:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-24-2024, 11:33 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Torchwood Mongawane w one of their offspring and a Lioness
Thats Mandevu i think.
Yes it is….I got my videos mixed up SMH
Trust me, it happens to all of us, some, like me, more than others.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - criollo2mil - 11-25-2024
(11-24-2024, 07:47 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(11-24-2024, 07:09 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I think the branding means they’ve been tested for TB I believe
I believe there may be different brands, to signify different things, such as a positive or negative test result.
The brands have a secondary use as ‘identifier’ for the unique individual. No two brands being alike.
They maintain a database so they can always go to each individual lion.
To my understanding it has no ties to positive/negative status.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-25-2024
(11-25-2024, 12:29 AM)criollo2mil Wrote:(11-24-2024, 07:47 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(11-24-2024, 07:09 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I think the branding means they’ve been tested for TB I believe
I believe there may be different brands, to signify different things, such as a positive or negative test result.
The brands have a secondary use as ‘identifier’ for the unique individual. No two brands being alike.
They maintain a database so they can always go to each individual lion.
To my understanding it has no ties to positive/negative status.
Ah, ok, very helpful, thank you. More proof we can't always believe what we read on YT and Insta.