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+----- Thread: Lions of Timbavati (/topic-lions-of-timbavati)
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RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-23-2024
Someone said that Avoca is already over 5 yrs old, which is not the case, most recent photos of Guernsey and Avoca by Ziggi Huggo:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
We can clearly see age difference and how young Avoca is.
I think he is born mid to late 2019.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Mapokser - 03-23-2024
@Tr1x24
They are not looking like that right now, lions can gain and lose condition very quickly, especially when in old age, few days without good meals and they'll lose their strength. Just look at the Guernsey videos, literally from 2-3 days ago, it's how they are right now.
Scar literally recovered his condition very very recently, 6 days ago was the first sighting of him in great shape since November 2013 on the Tintswalo Virtual Safari:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I was very clear that I didn't favor Mbiris from December 2013-Mid March 2024 not even over Tintswalos. Though saying they were hiding from G/A is an exaggeration, this never happened, they were just not, probably, hunting them down, but never stopped roaring, patrolling and mating with the females. G/A didn't confront them, they couldn't even beat 13yo Ross, only stalemate them in a staring contest.
What happened is that since maybe a week or so ago, Scar was seen very strong again and Shaka in much better condition, which is likely what allowed them to confront G/A. These Mbiris who defeated G/A I'd favor would over PCM and Gijima.
You mentioned debatable things, fine, but what about miss information? You should at least name those. Which false information I gave?
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Mapokser - 03-23-2024
@Redroadmale in a chasing match, size probably doesn't matter much, but in a fight, if there's a big difference, it sure matters.
A 170kg prime male won't beat a 270kg male. I think everybody can agree on that.
@Hairy tummy I think Makhunga is very bulky, very muscular, probably has a huge chest, I wouldn't be surprised if his chest girth would match that of Scar. In terms of length, both PCM and Mbiris have long bodies, IMO, maybe Mbiris are a bit longer.
Then there's height, I believe Mbiris are quite taller. PCM don't seem to be very tall, just around as much as average to decently big males like Tumbela and NK Birmingham. While Mbiris seem to be particularly tall.
If I can be fancy and throw in an estimation I'd think prime Scar would weight around 240kg, while Makhunga around 230kg.
But who knows, unless they were weighed or at least measured we can only speculate and make guesses that doesn't mean much as far as proof goes, it they were weighed it could turn out that my estimation is completely wrong or the opposite of what I thought.
@Tr1x24 As for Avoca's age, this photo doesn't mean much, K4's littermates have the same mohawk and are 5,5. Even K1 who will turn 6yo soon showed up bald one of these days.
Guernsey already had a decently big mane even when he was with his first partner, and he is 6+.
Mane grows at a different rate, the fact is that the dated photo of Avoca as a cub shows him as quite a big cub, looking bigger than 8+ months old Mangheni cub.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-23-2024
@Mapokser
Some Avoca cubs photos by Ziggi Hugo:
May 2019 (first litter sired by Mapoza)
*This image is copyright of its original author
August 2019 (looks like another litter after the first, based of cubs size difference)
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So looks like Mapoza cubs where born from ~March 2019 to ~ mid 2019.
So if young Avoca is born in first litter, he just hit 5 yrs of age around this time.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Potato - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 05:19 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: We can clearly see age difference and how young Avoca is.Exact same way you can deduct Nkuchuma male son of Birminghams is around 4 years old. That is not the proper way to aproach such thinks. Avoca male was born in early 2019 and is 5 years old now.
I think he is born mid to late 2019.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Potato - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 04:45 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: They where hiding from Guernsey and Avoca for monthsGuernsey and Avoca the past months spend on Shindzela which is not even in inch territory of Mbiri males. Guernsey and Avoca crossed into Ngala 2 times: once when Mbiris were in Manyeleti and they withdrew back to Shindzela once Mbiris returned and the second time now wich ended up in death of one of them. How is that hidning from Guernsey and Avoca lol
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Potato - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 02:24 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Some Avoca cubs photos by Ziggi Hugo:That post is from 30 april and the descripion under says : "The Avoca pride stayed close to camp with their cubs for a week or so. The cubs got curious a few times and sneaked up to us. Currently 5 cubs and some hidden away in a river bed. Normally late afternoon with very little light left to take photo's."
May 2019 (first litter sired by Mapoza)
Considering cubs are around 1 month old when the leave den site, those cubs were born in March-April.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 03:01 PM)Potato Wrote: Considering cubs are around 1 month old when the leave den site, those cubs were born in March-April.
Thats what i said.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 02:39 PM)Potato Wrote: Exact same way you can deduct Nkuchuma male son of Birminghams is around 4 years old. That is not the proper way to aproach such thinks. Avoca male was born in early 2019 and is 5 years old now.
No, you can clearly see age difference in most cases even at that age, and mane is not only indicator.
Bigger indicators are nose pigments and overall look.
Just find photos of any male when they are 4 yrs and compare that to his look at 5 or 6 yrs.
You will clearly see the difference in nose pigmentation.
NK can not be put under 4 yrs old male by any means, he has completley black nose (as most males have at over 7 yrs of age) and his face looks old (skin starts to loosen itself).
Avoca just turned 5 this month or next, and thats it if he was indeed born in first litter, which is also questionable.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 02:48 PM)Potato Wrote: Guernsey and Avoca the past months spend on Shindzela which is not even in inch territory of Mbiri males. Guernsey and Avoca crossed into Ngala 2 times: once when Mbiris were in Manyeleti and they withdrew back to Shindzela once Mbiris returned and the second time now wich ended up in death of one of them. How is that hidning from Guernsey and Avoca lol
Mbiris where not in Manyeleti when G/A first time attacked, report was that Shaka was low profile (with signs of injuries) in the area while all that was happening, Scar was nowhere to be found, but he was first to return from Manyeleti even before Shaka.
After that, Shaka first alone, the with Birmingham pride where seen east of Ngala and Orpen, in Kruger (prob due to G/A attack). Scar was not seen in a while with them and reappeared looking quite thin and not in best shape, as wasnt Shaka neither.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 03-24-2024
Words from Ngala is that Mbiris feasted on Guernsey's body for days, dragging it for 1km with them, finally today they left him for hyenas and return to the pride.
Strange behavior.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 03-24-2024
(03-24-2024, 04:07 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Words from Ngala is that Mbiris feasted on Guernsey's body for days, dragging it for 1km with them, finally today they left him for hyenas and return to the pride.
Strange behavior.
Very odd, almost as if to send a message, but to who? I don't believe I've ever heard of this behavior before.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Hairy tummy - 03-24-2024
Maybe similar behaviour to how a house cat takes a mouse home.strange for lions though
RE: Lions of Timbavati - sik94 - 03-24-2024
(03-24-2024, 04:07 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Words from Ngala is that Mbiris feasted on Guernsey's body for days, dragging it for 1km with them, finally today they left him for hyenas and return to the pride.
Strange behavior.
That's some very unusual behavior, crazier than anything that happened in the Mapogo era.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Duco Ndona - 03-24-2024
I can get feeding on him. Its survival and lions are already used to swallowing blood and small parts while biting during a fight.
But draging it along for days is new. I guess they were unsure about wheter or not to abandon it, or were constantly harrased by other scavengers.