(03-21-2024, 07:21 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Only current pair of lions that I see matching the Mbiris in size and strength is the PCM, and yet the experience still goes to Mbiris, in a huge way.

(03-21-2024, 10:04 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @BA0701 Yeah in the Greater Kruger I'd think the PCM are the closest duo to the Mbiri in strength. Though further east into Kruger there's also the remaining Mjejane males Toya and Pretty Boy, 2 very powerful beasts.

(03-22-2024, 05:56 AM)Mapokser Wrote: The feats of strength displayed by Mbiris are something we've never seen before, not even by their incredibly powerful fathers and uncles, or the Mapogo who were infamous for their fighting prowess.

(03-22-2024, 05:56 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Gijimas were playing with their mothers at the age where Mbiris were beating strong prime duos like Mapoza and Ross.

(03-22-2024, 08:36 PM)Potato Wrote:

(03-23-2024, 12:46 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24

Scar had a limp on his hindlimb when the Nharhu chased them 2v2, the report says so, even adding that Shaka had to stop and wait for his brother because the limping Scar couldn't keep up.

So it was not completely "fair". And this is literally their only defeat in even numbers, that despite them having more documented clashes than any other coalition by far.

Also, Nharhu males were very strong lions, even the limping Skorokoro beat I think one of the river pride males in a big fight and chased him off 1v1.

Nharhu were 3, Mbiri 2. Yes they got mauled by Nhahru multiple times, being outnumbered, and survived, making a full recovery. How many males have fought such brutal fights while outnumbered, being badly injured and survived so many times? Are you considering this an anti-feat? Bad showing of strength? It's quite the opposite, it shows that even while outnumbered, multiple times, no coalition was strong enough to kill them.

Gijimas chased Gore 2v1 and caught the elder male 2v1 or maybe 3v1. Once Amahle and Eorenji showed up, they chased the Gijimas. And back then dark-maned Gijima was very well developed already.

This in no way compare to beating prime Mapozas and Ross 2v2 when the Mbiri were 3,5yo.

Even in eastern Africa where lions develop quicker, I've never seen any 3,5yo males beating prime territorial lions in even numbers. Best I can think of was Big Boy Charleston fighting 1/3 Sand River male, but he lost, the dominant male chased him off eventually.

Gijimas chased 5 Nkhulu + Delaporte once, and it wasn't easy, it was 1 hour of back and forth until Gijimas won, which is very impressive, but the Nkhulu were challengers back then, not dominant males. Once they became dominant, 4 Nkhulu, with at least 2/4 being sick, easily chased the 2 Gijimas.

I'm not exaggerating anything, regarding strength, Mbiris are on a league of their own. Literally, no other coalition ever documented has so many documented clashes and wins as the Mbiris do, in even numbers/while outnumbered. They also chased nomadic males which outnumbered them multiple times. PCM only have 1 win against dominant males in even numbers/while outnumbered, Nhenha and NK. Gijimas have one if you count Nkhulu but they weren't dominant. And both were chases only, no fighting.

Neither has ever had a proper fight, never got seriously injured. Mbiris had such clashes and fights how many times? 15? 20? When I stopped to properly assemble the data and count them, I saw that not even Mapogo had so many clashes/fights and victories in even numbers or while outnumbered, and before that I couldn't count no other coalition with anywhere near as much cashes as the Mapogo.

I wouldn't count experience as much if Mbiris were very old, you're acting like they are 13, they are only 10, and in great condition.

PCM probably have more stamina, but Mbiris caught prime Guernsey male in a chase, so they have lots of stamina yet. PCM physically stronger? I don't think so.

The issue here is that neither PCM have ever fought an even fight, a 1v1 or 2v2 where their opponents put a real fight. Mbiris have fought such fights and almost died countless times so once the PCM face such opponents that put a fight they'd probably panick and eventually run, not used to fights "to the death". They know nothing about a long 1v1 fight, never mind getting caught 2v1, 3v1. Mbiris do, so fighting serious 1v1 from the Mbiri perspective is nothing, but for the PCM it'd be a new experience.

Hell Scar fought the BDM who not only had feats to show how strong he was as a dominant male, but was arguably the largest male lion we've seen.

Don't forget this is the lion the head ranger of Timbavati darted and stated was the largest they had ever darted, with the girth of his tail thicker than the guide's leg above his ankle, bigger than Ximpoko which they weighed at 283kg with a full stomach, bigger than 1/3 Timbavati male which they weighed at 259kg with only around 5kg of content.

His skull is displayed at the Timbavati museum, it got measured as the third largest lion skull in history. His skull is bigger than that of Doctor Kock's lion from Kenya which weighed 272kg with an empty stomach! Literally the second largest free-roaming lion ever weighed, barely smaller than the biggest one, that 287kg male with 5-10kg of content, forgot his ID, but his nickname was "the one who eats buffalo" from eastern Africa.

BDM was probably much bigger than Mbiris, never mind PCM, still, going by the photos of the injuries, Scar did more damage.

So you think they would be weaker than PCM just because they're 10yo, but still in great shape?