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+--- Thread: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project (/topic-asiatic-lion-reintroduction-project)
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rage2277 - 10-23-2020
(10-12-2020, 05:06 AM)KRA123 Wrote: There is something I don't understand about the way the Indian government is approaching Asiatic lion reintroduction. There are many Asiatic lions living in zoos in India, why not breed some of them in a dedicated breeding program and then release the progeny in the wild in, for example Madhya Pradesh, or elsewhere. Couldn't that bypass the Gujarat government altogether? Given the relatively high reproductive rate of lions, they could have a decent wild population outside of Gujarat by now if they had been breeding captive ones for reintroduction. If it's impossible to use lions in Indian zoos then the Indian government could request gametes from lions held in Europe or elsewhere. Once the population is large enough, they could trade with Iran - some of the lions for Asiatic cheetahs. I mean, even Iran, a whole other country and apparently the reciprocal antagonist of India in this process, has managed to get a hold of an Asiatic lion that they are going to try to breed, so can the Indian government do so as well?
quite a few lions i've seen from indian zoos look pretty inbred those from euro zoos look rather healthy and fit
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 10-24-2020
(10-23-2020, 07:51 PM)Rage2277 Wrote:(10-12-2020, 05:06 AM)KRA123 Wrote: There is something I don't understand about the way the Indian government is approaching Asiatic lion reintroduction. There are many Asiatic lions living in zoos in India, why not breed some of them in a dedicated breeding program and then release the progeny in the wild in, for example Madhya Pradesh, or elsewhere. Couldn't that bypass the Gujarat government altogether? Given the relatively high reproductive rate of lions, they could have a decent wild population outside of Gujarat by now if they had been breeding captive ones for reintroduction. If it's impossible to use lions in Indian zoos then the Indian government could request gametes from lions held in Europe or elsewhere. Once the population is large enough, they could trade with Iran - some of the lions for Asiatic cheetahs. I mean, even Iran, a whole other country and apparently the reciprocal antagonist of India in this process, has managed to get a hold of an Asiatic lion that they are going to try to breed, so can the Indian government do so as well?
quite a few lions i've seen from indian zoos look pretty inbred those from euro zoos look rather healthy and fit
I know right?.. But fact is the European population has been confirmed to be much more inbred due to limited origin stock compared to us.
Either our breeding method are incorrect & Indian zoos inbreed the animals further without proper planning, or we can just feed them less to avoid obesity.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Sanju - 11-26-2020
MP Government decided to implement plan-B.
Asian lions are being sourced from etawah safari park, UP which were donated by Gujarat govt recently.
They will be held in semi-wild 50 hectare enclosures and their 1st generation progeny will be rewilded before releasing into Kuno NP wilderness.
Along with lions, cheetahs are in expectation to be imported to India next year in which kuno is also a relocation site.
Lone tiger (Noor's bro) living in kuno nearly for a decade returned to Rajasthan. That makes kuno devoid of any residential tigers if not drifters.
https://www.bhaskar.com/local/mp/gwalior/sheour/news/if-the-lions-of-gir-were-not-found-then-the-asiatic-lions-given-by-gujarat-to-etawah-lion-safari-they-are-preparing-to-settle-in-kuno-127547822.html
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Balam - 11-27-2020
(11-26-2020, 11:05 PM)Sanju Wrote: MP Government decided to implement plan-B.
Asian lions are being sourced from etawah safari park, UP which were donated by Gujarat govt recently.
They will be held in semi-wild 50 hectare enclosures and their 1st generation progeny will be rewilded before releasing into Kuno NP wilderness.
Along with lions, cheetahs are expected to imported to India next year in which kuno is also a relocation site.
Lone tiger (Noor's bro) living in kuno nearly for a decade returned to Rajasthan. That makes kuno devoid any residential tigers if not drifters.
https://www.bhaskar.com/local/mp/gwalior/sheour/news/if-the-lions-of-gir-were-not-found-then-the-asiatic-lions-given-by-gujarat-to-etawah-lion-safari-they-are-preparing-to-settle-in-kuno-127547822.html
Wouldn't it make more sense to introduce a mixture of Gir and Etawah lions? This could be done by collecting semen from males at Gir (or zoos around India) and then inseminating a couple of females from the park. This is so they can increase the genetic diversity of the lions used to be rewilded, so they can be stronger and have a more varied gene pool.
I think the Indian government is underestimating the importance of having proper genetic diversity for the long term survival of any wild big cat population. Inbreeding not only reduces the size and affects the morphology of the lions, but it can also cause them to go through infertility issues, this is why animal corridors are so important, they keep populations from different areas connected with each other and ensure that different genes are passed down. A single breeding center with such low genetic diversity is a recipe for disaster in the long run IMO.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 11-27-2020
(11-26-2020, 11:05 PM)Sanju Wrote: MP Government decided to implement plan-B.
Asian lions are being sourced from etawah safari park, UP which were donated by Gujarat govt recently.
They will be held in semi-wild 50 hectare enclosures and their 1st generation progeny will be rewilded before releasing into Kuno NP wilderness.
Along with lions, cheetahs are expected to imported to India next year in which kuno is also a relocation site.
Lone tiger (Noor's bro) living in kuno nearly for a decade returned to Rajasthan. That makes kuno devoid any residential tigers if not drifters.
https://www.bhaskar.com/local/mp/gwalior/sheour/news/if-the-lions-of-gir-were-not-found-then-the-asiatic-lions-given-by-gujarat-to-etawah-lion-safari-they-are-preparing-to-settle-in-kuno-127547822.html
This truly is welcome news!
(11-27-2020, 12:37 AM)Balam Wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense to introduce a mixture of Gir and Etawah lions? This could be done by collecting semen from males at Gir (orzoos around India) and then inseminating a couple of females from the park. This is so they can increase the genetic diversity of the lions used to be rewilded, so they can be stronger and have a more varied gene pool.
Etawah safari park lions are from Gir (Junagadh zoo) stock. They just recieved a bunch of unrelated lions to restart their breeding.
I'm sure other zoo's lions will be introduced later too (don't they'll allow semen collection at Gir for this project one-upping them). Successful rewinding is the first priority right now.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rage2277 - 11-27-2020
so what's up with the euro zoos? they just have lions for show blabbering about conservation, send some genetic material already.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 11-27-2020
(11-27-2020, 07:39 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: so what's up with the euro zoos? they just have lions for show blabbering about conservation, send some genetic material already.
Someday. The basic obstacle of rewilding the animals have to be shoved first. Plus their lions have some inbreeding problems... Origins from part of Indian stock after all. Nothing we don't have here.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rage2277 - 11-27-2020
(11-27-2020, 08:09 AM)Rishi Wrote:(11-27-2020, 07:39 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: so what's up with the euro zoos? they just have lions for show blabbering about conservation, send some genetic material already.
Someday. The basic obstacle of rewilding the animals have to be shoved first. Plus their lions have some inbreeding problems... Origins from part of Indian stock after all. Nothing we don't have here.
i think they should be selective about the individuals they choose and have clear vision of what the species should look like..not taking random decrepit looking specimens, there's enough proper ones around.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Sanju - 12-16-2020
The forgotten pride..
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Ovie11 - 08-14-2021
lions of Gujarat will soon be seen in Van Vihar
Bhopal. The people of Madhya Pradesh who have been waiting for a long time will soon see the Asiatic lion. Yes, People will have to come to the capital Bhopal to see the lion and these lions. In order to bring the lions, the Forest Department of Gujarat and the Central Zoo Authority (CZA) have approved the introduction of two pairs of asian lions, two males and two females. Now an action plan is being made by the Wild Life Headquarters to bring them here and increase their offspring. At present, these lions will be kept in the Van Vihar National Park in Bhopal. These lions will be brought from the zoo of Shakarbagh.
After bringing the Asiatic lion here in Madhya Pradesh, the lineage will be increased. The cubs will be taught hunting by keeping them in enclosures. After this they will be released in the open forests of Kuno Palpur National Park in Sheopur. Remember that to save the Asian lions from the epidemic, the Kuno Palpur National Park was selected in the year 1994 and since then the Kuno was being prepared for the lions. In the year 2003, the park was completely ready. According to its maintenance and the protocol of the park, the government is spending crores of rupees every year in the field staff posted there.
The lions of Gir are not found, the Supreme Court has directed the Gujarat government to give lions. Even after this, the state is not able to get the lions of Gir from Gujarat. Due to this, the government has prepared the option of bringing its lion from Gujarat Zoo. About 9 pairs of lions are being prepared in Van Vihar National Park.
Indore Zoo Management Will Help In relation to bringing lions here and their management, help will be taken from Indore Zoo. Actually, the breeding of lion and tiger in Indore has been very successful. The Forest Department has also asked for a pair of lions from Indore Zoo. These lions will be made to meet among themselves, the genes should not create any problem.
Doctors and officials will go Gujarat Department has asked for young lions and lioness from Gujarat. Whose age is two to three years. So that there can be success in progeny growth. For this, a team of doctors and officials of Van Vihar will go to the Sakkarbagh Zoo in Gujarat. Chief Wildlife Custodian of Madhya Pradesh Alok Kumar told that consent has been given to bring lion and lioness from Sakkarbagh Zoo in Gujarat, soon a team of state doctors and forest officials will go there and like lions and then bring them and keep them in Van Vihar here. Will do breeding.
Translated from google
https://www.patrika.com/bhopal-news/asiatic-lion-will-be-seen-in-bhopal-van-vihar-7007655/
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Ovie11 - 09-25-2021
Gujarat agrees to give lion to Madhya Pradesh, now hope rests on this
Gujarat has reneged on agreeing to give young Babbar lion (Asiatic Lion) to Madhya Pradesh. In the name of considering the consent given at the level of the officers, the action of giving lions was stopped. Now the file of giving lion to Madhya Pradesh will go to Gujarat Chief Minister Bhupendra Patel. They will take the final decision whether to give lions to Madhya Pradesh or not.
The Singh project of the Government of India is in limbo due to Gujarat's attitude towards giving Babbar lions to Madhya Pradesh, so the state government had found a new way to bring lions to the state. The plan was that young lions would be brought from a zoo and kept in Van Vihar for breeding. Their cubs will be kept in the jungle environment and gradually they will be made wild. In the next phase, a protected area will be created in the state and they will be released in the open forest. For this, young lions were sought from the zoo in Gujarat.
This was under the wildlife swap scheme. The forest officials of Gujarat agreed to give the lion and after getting their consent, the Central Zoo Authority (CZA) also gave the nod. The officials and doctors of Van Vihar were about to go to Gujarat to like the lion, but on the eve of Gujarat officials told that the file will go to the Chief Minister and he will take the final decision. Usually, the decision is taken by the Chief Wildlife Custodian in a wildlife swap program.
IUCN's guide line screwed in bringing lions to Kuno
The Singh project which started 28 years ago (year 1992) at Kuno Palpur in Sheopur has been completed in the year 2003. All arrangements have been made to bring lions and keep them, for this 24 villages were shifted from Kuno Palpur, but Gujarat is not ready to give lions. Therefore, Cheetah is being settled as an alternative in Kuno Palpur, which will be brought from South Africa to Madhya Pradesh next year. After completing the lion project costing more than 200 crores, Madhya Pradesh made several attempts to get lions from Gujarat.
The matter went to the Supreme Court and in the year 2013, the court also directed the Government of India and the Government of Gujarat to send Sher Kuno Palpur in six months, but Gujarat did not follow these instructions. Rather put the condition of the guide line of IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature). Madhya Pradesh has fulfilled 22 out of 35 conditions of this guide line, while 13 conditions are of log time (long time), which will be fulfilled gradually after the lion is brought in.
Then why did Uttar Pradesh get lions?
Shahbaz Ahmed, former chief wildlife custodian of Madhya Pradesh, says that this is a monopoly of the Gujarat government. There should be no lions anywhere else in the country. If this happens, then there will be a division of tourists and the Gujarat government also sees it by connecting it with its identity.
On the other hand, retired IFS Ramgopal Soni says that the lion is associated with the identity of Gujarat. Whoever the government may be, the people of Gujarat do not want to be angry and now the elections are about to come. In such a situation, it is not easy to take the decision to give a lion. When asked whether Gujarat has also given lions to Uttar Pradesh for Etawah safari, Soni said that they have given them for zoo and we are asking to establish a clan. Tomorrow we will be competitive.
they say
The officials of Gujarat were ready to give the lion earlier, we were going to send the officials soon to see the lion, but now the information has come that the Chief Minister will take the final decision on this.
Translated from google
https://www.naidunia.com/madhya-pradesh/bhopal-gujarat-refused-by-agreeing-to-give-lion-to-madhya-pradesh-now-hope-on-this-7054040
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 09-25-2021
@Ovie11 they have agreed to nothing!.. Maybe same delaying tectics. Noone know how long that file will gather dust.
Or maybe is due to the fact that MP has decided in favour of trying to raise rewilded cubs born in captivity. Let's see...
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Ashutosh - 09-25-2021
@Rishi, it is a dreadful idea anyway. They want Asiatic cheetah reintroduced in Kuno. Except tigers and leopards already occupy this landscape. In Africa, the biggest reason for Cheetah cub deaths are other predators. That cannot happen to a small reintroduced population as even one such death would be a huge setback.
On top of that they want to reintroduce Lions in Kuno as well. Might as well kill the cheetahs on the flight. There are other landscapes for both these animals but the MP govt is looking at it with “we have already spent all this money might as well see it out” attitude and that is dreadful thinking.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 09-25-2021
(09-25-2021, 01:03 PM)Ashutosh Wrote: @Rishi, it is a dreadful idea anyway. They want Asiatic cheetah reintroduced in Kuno. Except tigers and leopards already occupy this landscape. In Africa, the biggest reason for Cheetah cub deaths are other predators. That cannot happen to a small reintroduced population as even one such death would be a huge setback.
On top of that they want to reintroduce Lions in Kuno as well. Might as well kill the cheetahs on the flight. There are other landscapes for both these animals but the MP govt is looking at it with “we have already spent all this money might as well see it out” attitude and that is dreadful thinking.
I don't care much for those foreign cheetahs' fate. But yes, I've made previous posts on Kuno being right on the prime tiger country.
Sending you two...
(01-29-2017, 09:18 PM)Rishi Wrote: The purpose of lion translocation was to create independent populations & that can be served without taking them out of the state..for the time being.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The state of Gujrat has multiple sites like Kutchh, forests of Aravalli foothills & Narmada Basin, Wastelands West of Bhuj etc. that can (probably did) house lions & should be favoured over far-off/controversial Kuno.
(10-11-2018, 01:26 PM)Rishi Wrote:(10-11-2018, 08:33 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: idk..this article is utter rubbish..doesn't make any sense..he's talking as if these so called lion lovers are literally bringing lions into revenue land,the lions go where they please..but how far can they go? surrounded by ever growing towns and villages..soon there will be no room in all of gujarat for them,their range needs to be extended,at some point they will be needed to repopulate some of their former ranges in areas like iran..no one is making this a bs political issue but you samir shulka and the rest of the sad gujarat government,kuh.. there is not even a decent excuse to not relocate the lions..how pathetic
Erm.. That's not what he's saying. And that's definitely not what i endorse!
He says the FD is being bound to manage the lions on revenue lands due to the "lovers" hailing the situation. If there was pressure on them to accommodate the lions within proper habitats, then they'd have already been translocated to other forests.
I too would like to see lions in Thar desert & Iran's ranges.
What i don't want to see, is lions in Kuno-Palpur. Here's why:
- Potential the Ranthambore-Kuno-Madhav-Panna corridor has, both qualitative & proximity wise.
Just look at the movements of male tigers overflowing out of Panna recently...
*This image is copyright of its original author
...And compare how much lower resistance the western route offers!
*This image is copyright of its original author
Instead of choking the Ranth-Panna corridor with lions, we must nurture it. (Re)Populating the intermediate forests of Kuno & Madhav with tigers would result in revival of that landscape.
.- Also there are already 2-4 male tigers like T-38 (& possibly T-77) settled in Kuno due to its inviolate habitat & good preybase.
The lions to be relocated, are not going to be veteran pride males of war-zone Gir, who may be able to compensate the size disadvantage by sheer experience. How well do you think inexperienced youngsters would be able to defend themselves against larger tigers in their prime, that have known the area for years?
Just imagine the blow the future prospects of lion translocation would suffer if a released one is killed!
Why not just give the poor lads a few mates from sonewhere in MP? The whole metapopulation will be saved from inbreeding themselves to abomination!
Right now the most practical solution of the lion problem are:
- Hope that this census confirms tiger presence in Dangs. That might open up options for a tiger-lion exchange between the two states.
.- Combine Shukla's & @Wolverine's ideas for now. Instead of the unnecessary eyewashes of Barda & Safari Parks, let as many healthy lions as possible be properly spread to all former habitats available within Gujarat, most are located where Greater-Gir lions cannot reach naturally.
Gujaratis shouldn't have much issue with that & unlike Kuno-Palpur (which may recieve a few dozen lions at best) the sites within Gujarat would favour relocation in much larger scale, actually helping solve Gir's population explosion.
Once Gujarat's "lion monopoly" is broken, even they'd be much more amenable to populating the forests near MP & Rajasthan border with lions, from where they may start trickling out to other states naturally.
So, while those populations reach carrying capacity, seriously explore the rewilding options elsewhere in MP...like GandhiSagar sanctuary or Khandwa division forests. MP has much more experience than Russia about successfully raising cubs in semi-wild.
Although those were wild-born orphans, the instinct is strong with captive ones...
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Leo Aslan - 01-25-2022
One of these fantastic Asiatic Lions: DEVRAJ