(09-05-2016, 03:15 AM)Blackleopard Wrote: Yeah, I think the tigers are bigger, there's some huge ones out there, at least most are probably on average.  Do you know the species of African lion that is thinner, perhaps they vary in design because of the vast varied environment and terrain of the African continent?

I think the tigers have the most muscular arms of any of the bigcats in my opinion, although I don't know if their the strongest for over all strength, its hard to know with the lion as they have the mane covering a lot of the anatomy.  I think the leopards the fastest though, most agile.

(09-05-2016, 05:12 AM)Blackleopard Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 04:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 01:27 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Today I have been to zoo Usti nad Labem (beautifull congo lion called Leon) and spoke to big cat breeder (30+ years of experience). He told me that leopards and snow leopards are shy and try to avoid confontation. Lionesses are quite friendly, but male lions are bold and would confront breeders or other animals at any given opportunuty. On the other hand if you are (psychologically) firm enough, there is a chance that you could repell such an attack. Tigers are most intelligent but unpredictable. According to his opinion the most agressive and dangerous felids are jaguars...he said that jaguars are true killers.

This seems to be the overwhelming opionion,
"Jaguars are killers"!

They are quite the big cat.

That's interesting about the jaguars, had not heard that before, they do seem pretty tough, perhaps they'd beat a leopard in a head to head, I still think though the leopard would have the edge in agility and speed over the Jag.  That doesn't surprise me about the male lions, from what Ive seen posted on various sites, they seem like the toughest cats as far as a mental disposition.  I have heard though, the black panther is the most ferocious as far as any bigcat.

(09-05-2016, 10:43 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 03:15 AM)Blackleopard Wrote: Yeah, I think the tigers are bigger, there's some huge ones out there, at least most are probably on average.  Do you know the species of African lion that is thinner, perhaps they vary in design because of the vast varied environment and terrain of the African continent?

I think the tigers have the most muscular arms of any of the bigcats in my opinion, although I don't know if their the strongest for over all strength, its hard to know with the lion as they have the mane covering a lot of the anatomy.  I think the leopards the fastest though, most agile.

I dont know what are the differences between various subspecieses of african lions, I would say that primarily it depends on individual...

BTW I always see that tigers have more muscular arms, while lions have more robust bodies...

I would also say that cougars can be faster and more agile than leopards...but cougars are "small cats". Also snow leopards are very agile

(09-05-2016, 10:50 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 05:12 AM)Blackleopard Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 04:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 01:27 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Today I have been to zoo Usti nad Labem (beautifull congo lion called Leon) and spoke to big cat breeder (30+ years of experience). He told me that leopards and snow leopards are shy and try to avoid confontation. Lionesses are quite friendly, but male lions are bold and would confront breeders or other animals at any given opportunuty. On the other hand if you are (psychologically) firm enough, there is a chance that you could repell such an attack. Tigers are most intelligent but unpredictable. According to his opinion the most agressive and dangerous felids are jaguars...he said that jaguars are true killers.

This seems to be the overwhelming opionion,
"Jaguars are killers"!

They are quite the big cat.

That's interesting about the jaguars, had not heard that before, they do seem pretty tough, perhaps they'd beat a leopard in a head to head, I still think though the leopard would have the edge in agility and speed over the Jag.  That doesn't surprise me about the male lions, from what Ive seen posted on various sites, they seem like the toughest cats as far as a mental disposition.  I have heard though, the black panther is the most ferocious as far as any bigcat.

I remember different breeder from different zoo who told me the same - jaguars are the most agressive and dangerous. Also one vet who raised tiger, lion and jaguar said that jaguar was the most dangerous and most dificult to treat.

(09-06-2016, 02:20 AM)Spalea Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 10:50 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 05:12 AM)Blackleopard Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 04:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(09-05-2016, 01:27 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Today I have been to zoo Usti nad Labem (beautifull congo lion called Leon) and spoke to big cat breeder (30+ years of experience). He told me that leopards and snow leopards are shy and try to avoid confontation. Lionesses are quite friendly, but male lions are bold and would confront breeders or other animals at any given opportunuty. On the other hand if you are (psychologically) firm enough, there is a chance that you could repell such an attack. Tigers are most intelligent but unpredictable. According to his opinion the most agressive and dangerous felids are jaguars...he said that jaguars are true killers.

This seems to be the overwhelming opionion,
"Jaguars are killers"!

They are quite the big cat.

That's interesting about the jaguars, had not heard that before, they do seem pretty tough, perhaps they'd beat a leopard in a head to head, I still think though the leopard would have the edge in agility and speed over the Jag.  That doesn't surprise me about the male lions, from what Ive seen posted on various sites, they seem like the toughest cats as far as a mental disposition.  I have heard though, the black panther is the most ferocious as far as any bigcat.

I remember different breeder from different zoo who told me the same - jaguars are the most agressive and dangerous. Also one vet who raised tiger, lion and jaguar said that jaguar was the most dangerous and most dificult to treat.

I'm a little surprised by what you're saying about jaguars. Im wild, jaguars are not known to be men eaters contrary to tigers, lions and leopards. Even if the fact is there are not circus acts with jaguars...

(09-06-2016, 01:43 AM)Apollo Wrote: As per scientific and reliable data (wild animals in particular).

Tigers (Bengals and Amurs) have the biggest paws, canines, forearm girths and upperarm girths of any bigcats.
When it comes to chest girths and neck girths its the Bengals which comes first among all bigcats followed by lions and amurs.

(09-06-2016, 02:25 AM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(09-06-2016, 01:43 AM)Apollo Wrote: As per scientific and reliable data (wild animals in particular).

Tigers (Bengals and Amurs) have the biggest paws, canines, forearm girths and upperarm girths of any bigcats.
When it comes to chest girths and neck girths its the Bengals which comes first among all bigcats followed by lions and amurs.

but when you see tiger and lion of same size, you´ll se that tiger has more muscular arms, while lion has more robust body.

(09-06-2016, 07:11 AM)Blackleopard Wrote: Yeah I agree, the tigers are more muscular in the arms, they have to be, to many pics show that, plus you can see them in real life in some places, I was in Florida, saw some big ones.  But I'm not willing to make a determining factor on which cat is actually stronger, the male lions like you're saying can look very husky.  There was this lion, it was a white lion, it was like 900 lbs in Florida, not neutered, but again it would have to be verified not 100% sure about the validity of that claim.  Another lion down in Florida, really cool place to go, very popular for tourist, BigCat Sarasota, huge lion there, a monster, supposedly almost 800 lbs, verified.  Another young white lion I saw on vacation was over 600 lbs verified by the trainers, probably going to get bigger, which was about the same weight as some of the largest tigers there.  So it hard to say, I was wondering what are the biggest captive tiger weights, the ones that are factual not exaggerated.

Its hard to know whether the more muscular arms of the tiger, would put it over the edge in strength alone, vs say yet a thicker huskier body on a lion, you'd think a thicker a denser framed person is often stronger than a more narrow guy yet with muscular defined arms from curling.  But again its hard to know.  They could end up being equal overall, apparently that trainer Randy Miller thinks so.  But I'm not sure, you also see some pretty thin tigers out there, but yet they're faster.  And that could be because their bodies are thinner, the lion is carrying around perhaps more weight on its frame for its size.

The Siberians are big though, Ive seen them, their all over the place now, so many places have bred them.  I don't think pure bred bengals are as big as Siberians, or the mixed Siberians that are bred in captivity for so long.  Huge heads, huge paws, and consistently the biggest looking cats, but again, its hard to say how much they really weigh vs a large lion of equal size.