(10-31-2020, 02:03 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.

However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.

On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.

(10-31-2020, 02:37 AM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-31-2020, 02:03 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.

However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.

On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.

Yet you can also see Nhena is walking slight closer to the camera. And anyways this is the perfect example of why this conversation is irrelevant.... in a fight do you think Nhena’s two centimeters in height matters more than Mfumo’s 20 extra Lbs of weight? And also, when you watched the video could you really tell who was bigger or did you have to keep pausing it and slowing it down? Live sightings are the worst for making comparisons... pictures are better. 

When some one asks a ranger if Nhena is the biggest lion in SS, they’ll say “sure”... But I don’t think they think you really going to treat it as a indisputable scientific fact. The same thing with ages or any other history... 

You don’t measure the height of anything of similar size by just “seeing” it. That’s not how height is measured. You and I know how tall we are not by using our XMen laser vision eyes, but because we actually measured ourselves. There are taller lions in the SS (dark mane, HB, Nhena) there are bulkier lions (Southern Avocas) and leaner ones (N Avocas).... those are all facts. And no guide needs to tell me Ottawa Male is impressive. He is absolutely an impressive male.

(10-31-2020, 03:00 AM)Slayerd Wrote: The reason why you are wrong is because these rangers and guides are not looking at photos or videos to compare. They simply can see that one is more impressive than the other. I didn't ask Legends Safari, "is Nhenha the largest lion?" I asked them who the most impressive lion was. They said Nhenha is a huge lion and the most impressive. They said the Southern Avocas are also impressive. You are saying Bulk vs Height vs lean. They didn't even say one of those words. They simply answered who the most impressive was. So when I asked, who is the most impressive lion, they said Nhenha and the S Avocas, the Othawa male was not even mentioned for you to even bring him up. The reason why you should believe a person over a picture you see on your phone? Because the eyes see better. The eyes see better than our phones. The Lion is alsmost right in front of you. If all these people say the Birminghams are the most impressive, we take their word because they are seeing it with their own eyes. Your logic would work if it was only 1 person. Unfortunately, many people have said the he is the largest lion. So your point is invalidated. I do understand where you are coming from but the words of people who are seeing things with their own eyes hold more value.

(10-31-2020, 03:09 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-31-2020, 03:00 AM)Slayerd Wrote: The reason why you are wrong is because these rangers and guides are not looking at photos or videos to compare. They simply can see that one is more impressive than the other. I didn't ask Legends Safari, "is Nhenha the largest lion?" I asked them who the most impressive lion was. They said Nhenha is a huge lion and the most impressive. They said the Southern Avocas are also impressive. You are saying Bulk vs Height vs lean. They didn't even say one of those words. They simply answered who the most impressive was. So when I asked, who is the most impressive lion, they said Nhenha and the S Avocas, the Othawa male was not even mentioned for you to even bring him up. The reason why you should believe a person over a picture you see on your phone? Because the eyes see better. The eyes see better than our phones. The Lion is alsmost right in front of you. If all these people say the Birminghams are the most impressive, we take their word because they are seeing it with their own eyes. Your logic would work if it was only 1 person. Unfortunately, many people have said the he is the largest lion. So your point is invalidated. I do understand where you are coming from but the words of people who are seeing things with their own eyes hold more value.

Nobody said that Nhenha is not impressive and largest lion.. 

I think discussion is about that even rangers cant see the difference in size between 2 lions that are close in size, if they are not side by side.. 

And we also dont know what for them is impressive lion.. Maybe the bulkiest, or tallest, or with biggest mane etc.. 

OM is definitely an impressive lion, he just isnt as bulky as Nhenha and S. Avoca.. But look at pictures of Nhenha and OM with the same lioness, size is very close..

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

(10-31-2020, 04:36 AM)BA0701 Wrote: I think size, when looking with our eyes is subjective. Some might appreciate a taller lion, one who is more lean but clearly taller, over a shorter stockier lion, one who is really thick and bulky. Personally I am more impressed by the bulkier lions, the ones built like little M1 Abrams tanks. over the taller leaner males. That doesn't mean they are "bigger", as that is something you'll not know unless they both got placed on a scale, it's simply my preference. 

Point being that what I might call impressive, someone else might say another lion who is taller and leaner is more impressive.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(10-31-2020, 02:37 AM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-31-2020, 02:03 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.

However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.

On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.

Yet you can also see Nhena is walking slight closer to the camera. And anyways this is the perfect example of why this conversation is irrelevant.... in a fight do you think Nhena’s two centimeters in height matters more than Mfumo’s 20 extra Lbs of weight? And also, when you watched the video could you really tell who was bigger or did you have to keep pausing it and slowing it down? Live sightings are the worst for making comparisons... pictures are better. 

When some one asks a ranger if Nhena is the biggest lion in SS, they’ll say “sure”... But I don’t think they think you really going to treat it as a indisputable scientific fact. The same thing with ages or any other history... 

You don’t measure the height of anything of similar size by just “seeing” it. That’s not how height is measured. You and I know how tall we are not by using our XMen laser vision eyes, but because we actually measured ourselves. There are taller lions in the SS (dark mane, HB, Nhena) there are bulkier lions (Southern Avocas) and leaner ones (N Avocas).... those are all facts. And no guide needs to tell me Ottawa Male is impressive. He is absolutely an impressive male.